00:00 Episode Preview

00:16 Opening

00:51 Introduction

01:18 Giveaway

01:35 Interview Begins with Elizabeth Su

02:07 Prioritizing Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual Wellness

03:29 Social Obligations vs. Genuine Desire

06:48 Navigating the Pain of Upsetting Others

08:31 Embracing a New Version of Yourself

09:55 Finding Belonging Amidst Rising Anti-Asian Hate

15:12 The Alchemy of Shifting Beliefs and Prioritizing Self-Care

22:38 Rebuilding a Relationship With Self

24:58 Radical Self-Love

26:26 AD – Join our Tarot for Alchemy Course https://learntarot.mysticmondays.com/

28:32 Transforming Emotions Into Growth

31:54 Seeing Each Other Fully

35:37 Learning Your Needs

40:14 How the Adventure Tarot Took Shape

43:09 Going Beyond Diversity

44:47 Overcoming Perfectionism Through Self-Worth

49:54 Fast Five Questions

52:06 Collective Reading from the Adventure Tarot by Elizabeth Su

55:43 Closing Statements

57:32 End of Episode – Make Sure to Leave a Podcast Review!

58:25 End Card

Welcome to the GRACED Podcast! A space for everyday magic for your everyday life. We do this through rituals, aligning yourself to your soul’s purpose, and creating Alchemy to heal our mind, body, and spirits so that you can bring in more love and joy, manifest your desires, and believe in your dreams.

Listen and watch over at graceduong.com/podcast and on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Instagram, TikTok and all the places you can find me on social media.

Now let’s dive into today’s episode.

💖 Introduction

Grace: Welcome to the GRACED Podcast, a space where we talk about everyday magic for your everyday life.

Today’s guest is Elizabeth Su, author of The Adventure Tarot. Today we talk about themes of the Temperance Tarot card, how to heal and overcome burnout, accepting and embracing our identities. As well as alchemy and how we can create more alchemy within ourselves and within our lives.

And we are doing a giveaway of Elizabeth’s deck, the Adventure Tarot, over on Instagram and YouTube. More details on how to enter this giveaway over @grace.duong and @mysticmondays.

Now let’s dive into this episode.

✨ Interview Begins with Elizabeth Su

Grace: Hi Elizabeth. Welcome to the GRACED Podcast.

Elizabeth: Hi, I am so happy to be here.

Grace: Yay. When I reached out to you, this episode is about themes of the Temperance Card, and you had mentioned that it’s one of your favorite cards, and I was wondering why that is.

Elizabeth: Because I am constantly feeling run down and I feel like the Temperance just gives me this like immediate sense of calm and peace and reminds me to take care of myself.

✨ Prioritizing Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual Wellness

Grace: Yeah. And when you say run down, is that by environmental factors or you’re phrasing it in a way where you’re constantly run down?

I’m getting a sense of the Temperance Card giving you a transformation just by receiving the messages from the card. What does that instant transformation feel like to you? Do you have practices that you do to get yourself into different states? What does that look like for you?

Elizabeth: I am recovering workaholic, people pleaser, overachiever, all these things.

So I think with the Temperance, it’s a reminder to simplify, do less, tend to my physical body, my emotional and spiritual wellness. I’m picturing. The Temperance card that I made, which she is in hot springs and like looking out in, she’s in nature and nature is always a form of self-care for me. And so I think those are some things that immediately land for me when I think about the wisdom that she gives me.

Grace: Yeah, absolutely. And who doesn’t love being in a hot spring?

Elizabeth: I know. It’s like, please just soothe all the stress away for me.

✨ Social Obligations vs. Genuine Desire

Grace: Yeah, and if you happen to be watching the video, I also have my Temperance that I made behind me as a poster, and Temperance reminds me of balance, like juggling these different aspects of your life. Because not everything is going to be perfect, and it reminds me of having the right ingredients for a recipe and that the amount doesn’t need to be the same every time for it to be perfect.

So for example, like maybe you have a little bit more apple in your apple pie than you did the last time you made it, but it’s still good and I feel like the Temperance Card can be a reminder. That you can find balance and moderation even when things aren’t perfect, and that maybe perfection isn’t the goal.

And for a recovering workaholic, me too, recovering people pleaser, all the ways that we overextend ourselves. How is it that we can come back to ourselves and remind ourselves that perhaps we don’t need to be doing all of those things, and that every situation can have a different sort of alchemy to it.

So for example, if in the past perhaps there was a tendency of people pleasing or whatever it is, and then you might have another situation in the future that might remind you of that tendency to people please. But I think part of the alchemy is recognizing the ways you’ve changed, the ways that you may have reacted differently.

So for you in your journey, how have you noticed that shift? Because it sounds like you’ve gone through a journey of road tripping, of creating your own deck, the past version of you who would react to people pleasing. What is the shift in difference between that version of you in the past and the version of you now embodying more of this Temperance energy?

Elizabeth: I love that question so much because I’ve been really hard on myself feeling like I haven’t made any progress at all, and so this is a good reminder to give myself grace. I think over the years, one of the things I’ve worked on the most, not like actively, I mean kind actively, but also just through healing my people pleasing is being able to listen to my own intuition.

And I think before, for example, I would’ve said that I was an extrovert. ’cause I was always around people. I was in like five book clubs and going to happy hour every day and nine birthday parties each weekend. And that I thought was who I was. I think living on the road helped with this too, because you’re just plucked out of your environment.

And I think over time I realized that a lot of the social engagements that I did was not ’cause I wanted to, but because I felt some sort of obligation or I didn’t wanna let someone down or it possibly could be fun, maybe. And so with the Temperance and coming back to self and enjoying that alone time and that self care, I think one of the ways, like I’m showing up differently in terms of people pleasing is just not committing myself to as much and letting that be okay. Even if it upsets people.

✨ Navigating the Pain of Upsetting Others

Grace: Yeah. Have you found that setting boundaries and really advocating for yourself, has that upset people?

Elizabeth: Yes.

Grace: And how did you react to that?

Elizabeth: It’s horrible. I feel like it’s the universe’s test each time it just taunts me because it just feels so terrible as a sensitive person.

I also feel like Temperance really like connects to our, the sensitive parts of ourself. Viscerally feel when people are upset. I’m constantly scanning the room for clues of changes in tone, changes in facial expression, like all these subtle ways that people consciously are unconsciously let you know that they’re upset with you.

Sometimes, that has led to. Ending certain relationships. That’s the extreme end when it’s just not worth it. Each time you try to set a boundary, like to get shamed, that’s something I’m really familiar with. Something that I grew up with, and that’s been a huge learning for me, is that in the right relationships or the aligned relationships or people who are doing this kind of work, it won’t feel so hard. And just that’s where the intuition comes in to be like, you know what? I’m tired of explaining myself and tired of feeling this way. Like maybe this isn’t supporting. What I need right now in my life.

And so my circle has definitely gotten much smaller and sometimes I feel sad and self-conscious about it ’cause that’s a very different version of myself or version of my life than I’m used to. But at the same time, there’s so much more freedom in that.

✨ Embracing a New Version of Yourself

Grace: Yeah, it sounds like you’re embracing a new version of yourself and each time you do, you’re like shedding a layer.

And I also feel like part of, you know what’s beautiful about Tarot is that it illustrates cycles. You’re going through this alchemical process and everybody wants to glorify what’s glittery in gold. There are definitely parts of it that are hard. You gotta let go of people that aren’t in alignment with who you’re becoming or who you want to be and who you are.

We’re constantly changing every day, and sometimes those people can’t support us in those ways, and sometimes we have to end those relationships. And I think that can be a form of alchemy as well, because perhaps you just no longer fit in your cup. Because I know in the traditional Rider Waite, there tends to be this cup that’s holding like water or liquid.

And I feel like sometimes we can give ourself permission to change and shift as we change and shift, but nobody really ever talks about how hard that can be to let go of a version of yourself that you too have grown so accustomed to being familiar with yourself.

Elizabeth: That is so true and I so appreciate that. I feel like I care a lot about sharing that side of the spiritual journey. ’cause I feel like I was handed something that was a little more polished and it made me feel like there was something wrong with me. So this conversation is very timely.

✨ Finding Belonging Amidst Rising Anti-Asian Hate

Grace: Yeah, and I also just wanna acknowledge because it’s not talked about enough how shame is so commonly felt.

And I was just thinking about this the other day. We can hide behind feelings of shame and if we express it, we can find that a lot of people can actually relate and resonate with that. And in some ways, we can turn shame into our power also, that. No longer a thing we shield ourselves with, but instead can be like the sword that points us forward.

It’s hard sometimes, the alchemy process is not always pretty. And I’d love to hear about your alchemy process because you created the adventure Tarot, which is gorgeous. And I know that’s something that you do in this deck is that you celebrate the Asian American experience, and this deck is also all about adventure and road tripping, and there’s like beautiful landscapes illustrated here.

So I just wanted to hear the importance of road tripping for you because it has been something that you’ve personally. Been doing or have done in the past inspire you to create this deck, but also what is the importance of celebrating the Asian American experience for you, and why did you want to encapsulate that into this deck?

Elizabeth: Okay. I’ll start with road tripping. Yeah. I love a good road trip. There’s something, I am a Sagittarius Moon, which I’m told explains everything, but I have a very wander list. Spirit, I always have, and I think that’s why, for the first half of my career I was in corporate and just like slowly dying inside.

And even prior to that, I really closed off my creativity. I never would’ve. Called myself a creative person or an artist. I wasn’t like a kid who wrote stories or drew pictures. And anyways, so it’s been a really long time since I have felt that, and I think every time I go out on the road, it gives me that feeling back of just freedom and.

A fresh start, a fresh perspective. And I’ve moved a lot in my adult life. And I think part of that is because when I outgrow a place, when I outgrow a version of myself, it outgrows the place at the same time. And. So I’ve appreciated putting myself in these kind of, sometimes very challenging, like new environments and seeing how I do and also giving myself that clean slate to be whoever I want.

So our, we were on the road for two and a half years. Moving about every month. And so it definitely gave a lot of opportunities to try out different versions of myself and also see which parts continue to be important. And that coincided with Covid and the rise in anti-Asian hate crimes. We originally left New York City for my mental health, and so we hit the road, went straight to the mountain west where there was.

Lots of open planes and animals and nature and it was a very restorative, and then it became the search for belonging. And it was while I was having this huge unraveling, I guess you would say, of my upbringing, of my racial identity. I’m mixed half Chinese, half white, and I grew up in the Midwest. And I’m third gen.

And so the combination of all of it led to a lot of erasure and assimilation and a forgetting of our past, and that became very upsetting to me and I really felt this deep longing to feel a part of the Asian community.

My husband is also Asian, so that was, that’s an interesting journey that we’ve been on together. But for me, because I didn’t have really these cultural ties yet, I still felt this deep grief during the rise in anti-Asian hate crimes. There was. Like this strange disconnect of like, where is this coming from? Am I allowed to feel this way? Why do I feel this way? Why don’t I have any memories of anything?

Who am I? It like starts simple, I guess you could say, and then it very quickly becomes an existential question and through kind of that pain and that longing, I decided to make art out of it. I decided that even if I didn’t feel like a part of the community, my like act of self-love for myself was to create this deck that really honored and celebrated the Asian American experience and did it in a way that felt true to me, where it, as a mixed culture kid, having grown up here, it’s all I know. And so I thought, what bigger kind of f you to everyone who thinks that we don’t belong here, to have the backdrop of this deck be like quintessential Americana.

✨ The Alchemy of Shifting Beliefs and Prioritizing Self-Care

Grace: Yeah. And it definitely feels that way to me and something that I enjoy about it because I’m first generation, my parents are both immigrants and there’s a lot of trauma to heal, especially if they’re not open to talking about emotions and mental health. And I feel like if that generation isn’t willing to talk about it, it usually gets passed down to the next generation and I’m dealing with it, right?

I do feel like in your deck there’s a feeling of liberation and freedom that these Asian women, and I appreciate that because I don’t feel like that’s always depicted for Asian women to like, just enjoy life, like I really in nature or really enjoying their time because I do feel like there’s definitely a theme of sacrifice that I’ve had to deal with.

And I think not just like with Asian culture, and perhaps it’s sacrifice as a theme is within every culture in some way, but I do feel like there’s this don’t speak up for yourself. Just work really hard. Put your head down, keep going, keep sacrificing, do whatever it takes. That kind of thing. And it’s really harmful, and I know I took on those beliefs for sure, and I see it come out in aspects of how. I work sometimes, or I was like that person who had three jobs in high or in college or I was just always hustling because I always felt like I had to. And I think what’s resonating with me too is like lately I’ve been going on these really long walks in nature and they turn into runs sometimes and it’s just.

So nice to do that for myself and not let me be constrained by the constructs of time, because I feel like that’s the other thing about maybe society at large, is that there’s not enough time. There’s not enough time to go outside and take care of yourself, and the clock is always ticking and you’ve gotta go and go with that thing.

I find in some funny way that when we do take the time out to take care of ourselves, there happens to be more time, if that makes sense. Because if I’m constantly working all the time, then I don’t have the energy to do some of these things that are on my to-do list. And if I’m taking like, because now it does take a large chunk of my day if I do happen to drive out to that trail that I really like.

And I noticed that yes, I am tired after it, but it’s a rewarding sense of tired. It’s not like a, I’m drained, tired. It’s like a wow. My body feels really good. Like I accomplished something for me today as a human. Not necessarily as something towards my achievement. And honestly right now that feels more rewarding than going after something within my career.

And career is hugely important to me. And there’s some stuff going on in my 10th house. I have a Capricorn St. Stellium, so my Moon is in my 10th house. So I feel very safe like working and. I feel like that’s a really great way that I tend to express myself. But I feel like what I’m noticing more and more is that the more that I tend to my own needs first, the more I’m able to give in other ways.

Because if I’m not doing that, then I tend to get resentful. I tend to feel drained. And I think that’s like a calling back of your energy and in a lot of ways, recognizing these beliefs of I don’t need to. Do those things that I thought I had to do before, and that’s alchemy because that’s a shift in how you approach things.

I feel like your thoughts influence your actions, and if you believe something different, then you tend to do something different, and I feel like that also encapsulates the Temperance Card in which, how we choose to focus our attention, but also what we deserve. Because I do feel like the internal shift is knowing what we deserve and believing that we deserve it.

Because if we can’t see it, then how is it that the universe can then deliver that to us? And I feel like part of that rewiring or picking up different beliefs is being your biggest cheerleader. Being that biggest advocate. And I see that. You did that right by creating this deck and really embodying your relationship to the Asian American experience because it’s different than my experience as an Asian American woman.

I feel like I grew up in the city, right? So like I love nature in a way where it’s not as familiar to me, but I love it. I love traveling. I love that sense of. Freshness and that perspective that I get whenever I travel and just shake it up because it’s important to step outside of your routine, to really a new sense of things to even start forming new beliefs or start forming new ways of being.

So what was it for you, because you mentioned you lived in New York and then the pandemic hit and you were like, I gotta get outta here. Was that the turning point for you to be like, I gotta start making some real shifts here?

Elizabeth: Yes and no. So I would say I started making like big shifts when I went to New York.

So I had been in corporate, I was with my long-term partner in the Bay Area at the time. I was just like, for all intents and purposes, like doing, I. Like very successful. And then I started going to therapy and I got my yoga teacher training and kind of things started to really shift at that time. And I was like, I gotta burn my life to the ground and start over.

And so after we got married is when I applied to grad school and in psychology. I’d never taken a psych class in my life. But I was like, this feels the, it was the call. And so I moved across the country by myself, was like a 30-year-old buried woman. And that was a big shift in my life where I closed the door on my corporate career and went down this new path.

And that was very scary. And there was a lot of grief that and fear that came up with that in my tiny little dorm room in New York. And then when Covid hit, that was about the time that I graduated and I had been really struggling. I had started a coaching business, but it wasn’t super lucrative. I wasn’t super loving it.

I started to write, at the time, a kind of a culmination of the research that I had done in school on burnout, imper, perfectionism, and I guess when we hit the road. I would say it made me question my first kind of existential crisis was with my career, which sort of makes sense for our capitalist culture.

And then my next, this next one was like my racial identity, my kind of who am I at the core? And as things started to smooth out on the career end and then on their racial identity, and it’s just interesting. There’s always more lessons to learn, more shifts. To make, but at least I think I’ve gone through a couple of these cycles where I’m like, okay, it feels really terrible, but at some point it will get more gentle.

✨ Rebuilding a Relationship With Self

Grace: Yeah. So what was that trust that you had, even though you were facing uncertainty, and obviously those periods are uncomfortable ’cause you don’t know what the outcome is gonna be. What was that? Was it like your inner voice or guides or what was that guidance telling you that everything. Was going to become gentler in the future.

Elizabeth: I think I struggle with this. I think amidst my different crises, I’ll call them reclamations, but one of those was also with my spiritual practice. I. Because I had been so invested, so taken by this other world that I didn’t grow up with, and it really provided a lot of comfort for so long. But I put a lot of people on pedestals and my program actually was geared specifically.

Towards spirituality and MINDBODY practices and similar along the lines, everyone came crashing down and that really made me feel very hesitant towards all the spiritual practices that I, that had become part of my ritual. I sort of threw them out the window. And so it did leave me quite lonely ’cause I didn’t feel like super connected to any guides or a higher power or my ancestors.

Like I tried really hard and it was in the trying that made me feel just so frustrated and jaded. And so I think something that has really helped me is I’ve been doing a lot of inner child and inner teen work and. It’s almost like that lives within me. It doesn’t feel as much like I’m reaching outside myself and the more I reparent myself, there’s some sort of trust and gentleness in that because I think the part that the fear and the.

Criticism that comes online in those really uncertain times. That’s the part that gets really loud. So as I dial up the more loving kind of maternal figure in myself to comfort the little one who’s like really, ’cause she’s really the one who’s scared, she doesn’t know that like it’s gonna work out. Then that gives me some sort of strength.

✨ Radical Self-Love

Grace: Yeah, definitely. It reminds me of this walk that I actually took at that trail that I really like and I was feeling all these really uncomfortable motions of like shame and I was like going in this spiral of all this stuff coming up and I knew logically that it was my emotional body needing to express itself through the physical.

And I feel like for a long time I just ignored my physical needs because it was just like. It didn’t matter, which kind of reflected how I felt as a child that my needs didn’t matter. And it’s just funny how sometimes as adults we can treat ourselves in the same ways that we were wounded.

I think it does take a lot of practice to recognize when we’re also doing that to ourselves to take a pause and just be like, how can I dial up the volume on. Being loving to myself because that in itself can be uncomfortable because you might not be used to that. You might be used to being a hard on yourself or critical.

And unfortunately, I think that tends to be more common than not. And so it’s like a radical thing to be like, no, I love myself and I know I deserve better and I want to treat myself better, and so I’m gonna take this practice. Whether it’s like affirmations or whatever it is, your own self practice of self care to really honor and respect yourself.

✨ Transforming Emotions Into Growth

Grace: And I just remember going on this walk, which was very recent by the way, and I was like, wow, all these really uncomfortable feelings are coming up. I know that it’s not forever, like it’s a temporary thing, but wow, I feel really freaking awful right now. And it was just surprising because. I feel like I’ve been pretty consistent for the past month or so, going on these walks and runs and just feeling so much better.

So it was a surprise that all these kind of like darker emotions were coming out, but I knew that it just needed to come out because I had probably been, harboring. These stuck emotions for some time now. So like these repressed emotions had to come out some way. And yes, it was uncomfortable, but the next day I had the best run, the fastest run I’ve had in a really long time.

And that to me was like, okay, like something is shifting, energy wise. And sometimes we do have to get through those uncomfortable feelings. The darker emotions to be able to experience that lightness. And I think a lot of it too is just like making space. Because sometimes when we’re holding onto these things, we might not notice it or we’re holding onto these things and it might come out in certain situations where you realize wow, I’m still reacting in that way.

It’s still, it bothers me, that thing still triggers me. And sometimes we have to do our own work, whatever that means. Like awareness, journaling, yoga, like moving things in the body. So I mentioned all of this because I feel like Temperance to me really does represent this alchemy, and I feel like there are so many practices that we can do that can alchemize our state, can alchemize.

The way we feel it can alchemize the way we feel in our bodies, emotions, spirit, all of those things. I’m wondering what is your definition of alchemy?

Elizabeth: I immediately just imagine the act of feels like magic making to me. I’m like. Pouring lots of things together and having it become something else.

And so for me it’s in those hard times that feel so heavy and like a big, giant soupy, terrible mess, and knowing that. On the other side of it is something you can’t even begin to imagine what it is. It’s, but it will be different. It’ll be, I want to say better, but I’ve been working on that myself where it’s at least gonna be different.

And that’s a good thing. If we look at the journey as just growing more into who we’re meant to be or feeling, closer to a purpose or more fulfilled or more expansive, experiencing the world, then surely on the other side of this there will be blossoms. That actually is the inspiration that I use for the death card is like a forest fire because I try really hard. That’s my like a reframe. I come back to a lot when I feel really down with whatever it is I’m experiencing that things will bloom from it. That I just have to be patient.

✨ Seeing Each Other Fully

Grace: Yeah. And I feel like part of it is letting go because there’s this process that we may not be able to see because we’re in it, but if we’re able to zoom out, maybe we can have another perspective of what’s.

Going on in our lives or maybe understanding that there is something higher that is more aligned with us down the road, that is not quite available to us yet because we’re getting prepared for that next moment, that next opportunity. And I know earlier we talked about alchemy in the sense of letting go of relationships that no longer work for you, but you also mentioned that.

You’re in a long-term relationship, a marriage, and I suppose that’s alchemy as well, right? When you meet the right person. And that becomes an alchemical process because you’re both changing with each other and supporting each other in that process. So how would you describe that in being a part of your growth process or how that has helped you become more of who you are?

Elizabeth: It’s huge because we’ve been together now 15 years. So like almost half my life we met in college and so we have lived many different lifetimes together. And I always say it’s so weird that like when I think of what I’m most proud of in my life, like one of the. Things is my marriage because it has not been easy.

It is really difficult to grow with someone, and sometimes I’m envious of people who meet their person later in life. When both people have done a lot of inner work and know their triggers and it feels a little bit more useful from the outside. At the same time, I have so much reverence for our relationship and kind of the ways in which.

We have grown individually and together because our first five years were long distance. And then as I mentioned, we did long distance again when I went to New York. So something that has been, I. A pillar in our relationship is continuing to grow as individuals and really yeah, see who we’re supposed to be, and then supporting that together.

And I would say we both had a lot of internalized racism and like we’d never dreamed of falling in love with another Asian person. And it was not something we sought out. We actually did go to China together, so higher power was for. Sure. Like orchestrating something for us all along of course.

But I don’t think for either of us, it wasn’t like who we were. It was an important part of relationship and it has become completely essential and something that we’re so grateful to share to together in being able to like embrace who we are. ’cause I always. I grew up in a family where we wouldn’t call ourselves Asian or Chinese.

That erasure was so strong, and so it’s like, how could I possibly love myself if the people closest to me refuse to see the whole me? It’s such a disconnect. It’s very disorienting, and so that is one thing that I tried to describe is there was one day I woke up and I looked at my husband. I was like, if I can see that he is Chinese, it’s impossible really to.

Pretend anymore that I’m not. And so there was that alchemy that happened with our relationship where as we began to see each other more fully, then we got to see ourselves more fully as well. And that was really cool.

✨ Learning Your Needs

Grace: Yeah, sounds like a beautiful way to reflect. One another and honor each other in your identity.

And also I think healing, you mentioned internalized racism, and I think that is uncovering a lot of people’s beliefs and identities about themselves even because I think society likes to put us in a box, like how we should behave and be, and I know. For Asians, it’s very much about being this like model citizen in American society.

And so I felt similarly to you in how you mentioned feeling this deep grief during those Asian hate crimes and when that was happening and all this stuff coming up and just feeling helpless because I didn’t really feel like it was being as amplified in the news. And that to me also I think, reflected how perhaps America saw Asians in America.

And I think it’s important to share the parts of ourselves that matter because we do matter, and most of all, if we believe we matter, then. Other people will also see that they matter. And I think that’s where when we truly honor ourselves and our authenticity and who we want to become, not what someone thinks you are, then you are also giving others permission to be themselves too.

And I think that’s a huge gift that we may not always see in the moment because it’s hard to really become ourselves. To really strip down the layers of becoming who we authentically are. And it takes a lot of courage to be your authentic self, to look people in the eyes of people who may have seen you in a different way.

Maybe people you’ve grown up with, maybe people who want you to be safe, but maybe are saying things that are not necessarily supportive and encouraging to your goals and your bigger dreams. And so sometimes you have to say Hey, that’s not for me. That’s. Setting that boundary to free yourself to do the things that you wanna do.

Boundaries are necessary. And I think that too is like it’s protection, but it’s also speaking up for yourself, speaking your needs. And I think that matters, and I can speak for myself, especially when I. You may not have felt like you had needs or you may not have felt like you were supposed to have an identity or that you weren’t allowed to speak up for yourself to then understand what your needs are.

I can say from my adult journey, like a lot of that was learning what my needs were, even because I felt like growing up a lot of what I was taught to do and be was to be. Of service to others because that was what women did, the family. And so I think a lot of what has become important to me is carving out my own identity and my own authenticity and how I can become more of myself.

And there’s a independence to that. There’s a reclaiming to that, and I feel like. In everyone’s journey, everyone’s story is a bit different, but I think what comes down to it is when you recognize what your own needs are, that you matter as a person, as a human. And when you can recognize your own needs, you’re then more able to be there for other people.

Because if you’re not there for yourself and you’re looking for it. From external validation from others, it just tends to feel empty all over again each time you look for it outside of yourself. So the more that you can give to yourself that self-care, self-love, that time, the patience, the gentleness, I think the more kind, caring, and loving we can be in the world, and we can also show up more fully and authentically as ourselves when we’re able to give to ourselves as well.

Elizabeth: Absolutely. I feel like half of burnout is just constant code switching and just trying to fit in just and I am with you. I feel like I’m still, when my husband’s what do you want for dinner? I’m like, I don’t know. It’s like baby steps of what? When it comes to your needs and your intuition and listening to your body, it’s.

It’s definitely a journey and a reclamation and it helps me to remember that there are so many, to hear you speak and to remember that there are so many other women and Asian women who are doing this work and paving the way and ’cause I think sometimes it can feel like, gosh, like this is a lot. It is a lot.

It’s man, I wanna need a spiritual vacation.

Grace: Me both.

✨ How the Adventure Tarot Took Shape

Grace: So I’d love to hear about your process. What was it like creating the adventure Tarot? And I know you also worked with an illustrator and what was it like working with Jenny Chang, who is the illustrator of the cards? It

Elizabeth: was just the best. I love co-creating.

It is my favorite place to be. It’s just, it’s so fun to, when I came up with the idea, it just went, boop. It just fell in my lap, like I saw the whole thing. I like screenshotted these different images on Instagram that sort of gave the vibe I was going for and it was so cool three years later to look at the cards and to look at kind of these little sketches and be like, oh my gosh.

It’s like literally exactly how I wanted it to be. Not too much shifted from the original idea and the original mission, and I think the biggest thing for her, I remember our very first call, it was so short and my agent was on, and I called my agent afterwards and I was like. How do you think that went?

Like she didn’t ask many questions and my agent was like, I think that’s because she just got it and just, it just was so amazing to me. Like I have lived my whole life, like pretty much just like fighting to be understood. I’m like the black sheep in the family. I’m just always like the pioneer that’s.

Out. When everyone’s going left, I’m going right, and this is a complicated project. It didn’t seem that complicated to me, but it was like, okay, I want the road trip and I want Asians and I want women’s empowerment and I want it to be modern and hip and these things and find someone who is just like I.

I’m with you. Let’s make it happen. That was so cool. And it was really neat to go through the creative process together because as a people pleaser, it is hard for me to speak up and be like, I don’t really like that. Or can we do it this different way? So with Jenny and with my publisher, this was like the first thing that I ever created where I was like, no.

Like I want it to be this. Way I wanna have gold siding. I want it to be this, to have this feel. I want this to look different in these ways. And so it was very empowering because partnering with Jenny, we just had a deep love and respect for each other and to really just wanted to make it happen.

And so whatever that took to co-create in a way that felt good for both of us. And it was cool because she was also able to put her own flares into it. So all the nail polish that she did, like that was all her. And I was like, oh my God, I love that. So it was fun to have those little surprises along the way that’s oh my gosh, it’s this and better.

✨ Going Beyond Diversity

Grace: Yeah. That’s super cool that she was able to literally illustrate your vision. I feel like that’s also important that you both saw each other in that way, and from what I know, Jenny Chang sounds like an Asian name, so you also got to collaborate with another Asian woman.

Elizabeth: Yeah, that was a non-negotiable, which I knew was actually gonna be a fight.

And I was like, no, this is gonna be an own voices deck. I’m tired of the dog and pony show, like diversity for capitalism. And so that part was really cool. And we put a lot of time and effort into figuring out okay, what does it even mean to be an Asian deck? What does it mean to celebrate the Asian American experience?

Like we don’t want it to be like superficial or racist or exclusive. That’s why. We opted for some of the things that we did where it felt more authentic to our experiences.

Grace: Yeah, and I think it’s important to redefine that, right? Because I think there are many types of Asian American experiences.

It’s not just like the typical, maybe like a plus student or whatever that you might see in the media. There’s just so many portrayals of the Asian American experience. Experience. That experience we may not get to see, but we’re seeing more and more of because more creators like yourself are illustrating Asian American women on road trips.

Come on, that’s amazing. Makes me wanna go on a road trip. Right now.

Elizabeth: I’m like, we need pizza, we need tattoos, we need some sassy spunky gals at the center.

Grace: Yes to all of that.

✨ Overcoming Perfectionism Through Self-Worth

Grace: So when with adventure, we often come across like these beautiful landscapes, and I’m wondering how can we tend to our own inner landscape?

What are some ways that you find belonging within yourself? Because I feel like belonging is something that you had mentioned. As being important and is on the back of your deck as a theme, this deck. So what does belonging mean to you and how can we find more belonging within ourselves?

Elizabeth: Belonging, I think to me means being able to show up as your maybe messy, ander authentic self and feeling it. To me it’s like a more of a feeling of safety and for me safety is like that. Very rare it seems experience of being able to put all the other ways that you try to make yourself feel safe.

You can put on the shelf, you can relax into. Into this space. It’s been really difficult for me to find first my, in, in my career, in my different identities, even as a mixed person. I, it’s its own flavor of identity within the Asian community and. I feel like I’ve always been in this liminal space.

I was born that way, and so I’ve constantly been trying to find that sense of belonging. Which sort of brings me to this other question, which is that belongingness in self, and I think it’s a good one because I’m still trying to find that because I watch myself. I think little e just like really wants to find her group of friends where like she can be her loudest, wildest, weirdest.

Self, and it’s been a journey. And I think as I’ve gotten older, different environments have stuffed that down and was like, I don’t like that you’re that loud. I don’t like that. You’re that wild. I don’t like that you’re that weird. Like I don’t like these different things. And so I’m a very perceptive person, so I’m like, okay.

Noted noted. And then I become this I don’t even know, version of me, like a caricature and. So the belonging to self, I think is that self-acceptance of first, this is who I am. Because if I’ve proved of myself, then I don’t need so much. I don’t hang on everyone else’s, every word or every reaction to me.

And that’s like a complete reversal of the way that I have operated for most of my life. I’ve taken what other people. Will deem as acceptable, and then I make that in me so that I am palatable to them. And so to have it be reversed of who am I when I’m not being a Chameleon? And then we opened with this, but this is the part that I have found the most challenging about the journey is okay, now I have a pretty good sense of who I am.

I’m coming back out into the world to find that belonging. And people are like, Ooh, go back. Like we don’t like that. We don’t approve of that. And so it’s okay, now I have to metabolize that or find my way through that. But in my research, unconditional self-acceptance is the way forward to overcome perfectionism, which makes so much sense because we don’t have to constantly be covering up.

Are mess and controlling everything, and avoiding mistakes and flaws if we know that we are inherently worthy no matter what. But it’s really fricking hard and I am still finding my way through it.

Grace: Yeah, and I do feel like every time we evolve into another version of ourselves, that answer tends to change.

So it’s never set in stone of. How you approach things or how you find belonging or how you just approach life because the formula changes as you change, right? I think that’s also the practicing giving yourself Grace and acceptance for all of us to give ourselves permission to constantly evolve into the next version of ourselves.

Because if we’re just stuck in how we always perceive things or just. There’s no room for growth when we do that. And I feel like part of the growth process is uncomfortable. It is basically admitting you don’t know all the answers, which is I wish someone had told me that when I was younger, because I feel like adults in the world wants to tell you that you should have all the answers.

You should know what you wanna do, you should be this, you should be that. And I think that word should. Can be quite harmful because it eliminates the need to explore, which I think is a deep human need. It also comes back to that word adventure. I think adventure is a much needed human experience to shake up our perspectives, to give us value in terms of what we value and our belief systems, and also I think it helps us appreciate life.

Elizabeth: Yeah, me too.

✨ Fast Five Questions

Grace: Yeah. So we are gonna move into our fast five questions, and also we are doing a collective reading. Elizabeth is gonna give us a collective reading from the Adventure Tarot. But first, what is your Sun, Moon and Rising

Elizabeth: Aries Sun, Virgo Rising, Sagittarius Moon.

Grace: Oh, I’m an  Aries Sun too.

Elizabeth: Oh, look at us.

Grace: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Making waves. Paving the path.

Grace: Yes.

Elizabeth: Being fiery.

Grace: It reminds me of the campfire or something,

Elizabeth: Yeah, my favorite place to be.

Grace: Love it. What advice would you give to your younger self?

Elizabeth: I would tell her that everything’s going to be okay.

Grace: Yeah. Beautiful. How would you define everyday magic?

Elizabeth: So I think everyday magic is just remembering like the best thing possible could happen, even if it feels far away.

Grace: Yeah. We can’t even see it right now.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Things can change in an instant. You don’t even know.

Grace: Yeah. What are your favorite rituals?

Elizabeth: I live really close to the beach, so I like to go to the beach quite often.

Sometimes just to sit, sometimes to dance, sometimes to just space out. I struggle a little bit with rituals because I don’t tend to like to do the same things all the time, but I. I would say pretty consistently is putting my bare feet in the grass or the sand or like listening to good music, things that bring me back into my body.

Grace: What are you looking forward to in the near future?

Elizabeth: I need to go on some more adventure. It’s been a little, I’ve had some health stuff going on and the launch and I’ve got a new project. It’s been pretty heads. Down and we have quote settled here in la, which is a good thing, but very uncomfortable for me.

And so I really, I need to, I wanna get out, wanna get to the mountains. I wanna get out and travel and have a bit of a reset.

Grace: Yeah, you deserve it.

Elizabeth: Thank you.

✨ Collective Reading from the Adventure Tarot by Elizabeth Su

Grace: So we’re gonna move forward into the collective reading.

Elizabeth: Okay. Excited. Okay. I’m gonna give the deck a little shuffle and we’ll see if something emerges.

Okay. This is hilarious. Two cards just fell out.

One is Temperance. The theme for today. Here she is in her hot springs, and then this is cute. Then we got the Ten of Pentacles, which is another one of my favorite cards. We worked on this one for a really long time to get the sunset. Just perfect and the little girl’s perfect.

So for Temperance, I have the essence as self-care and releasing burdens. And the theme is, I wrote, I’m tired. Are you tired? The world is a shit show, and some days it all feels like too much. When you’re a sensitive being you tune into the suffering of the collective and holy cow, do things feel heavy lately? That’s very true. When you’re tending to your own intergenerational trauma, fighting Mama Earth or dismantling systems of oppression, know that none of this can happen overnight.

It is imperative that we take breaks along the way. Trust that while you’re resting, someone else is doing the work. So when it’s their turn to rest, you’ll have the energy to tap back in. This is how we create sustainable change, and then it goes on. For the collective reading. I feel like that’s been the theme of our conversation is, and I love this kind of bringing back to your, what you were saying about balance and it not having to be so perfect or like in equal proportions.

I think when I created this card, I was thinking about how we can work together to empower each other to take rest because we can’t burn out at the same time, and that’s coming to me when I look at this card for our community today. And then Ten of Pentacles. I have the essence of this one as meaning and autopilot, and I wrote, okay, so maybe.

You aren’t couch surfing anymore, or maybe you occasionally splurge on cup pineapple, or maybe you even have a place with a dishwasher and in unit laundry, hey, a girl can dream. But it wasn’t that long ago when you didn’t have any of these luxuries, and guess what? Life was good then too. With the Ten of Pentacles, we take stock and all forms of abundance inside jokes.

Cozy nights in Hummingbird, spooning, boba dates, glazed donuts, scrunchies, summer concerts. This card grounds us in our own idea of happiness and what gives meaning to our life. So I think that also comes back to what we were talking about with tuning into your own needs. And when we focus on our own experiences and drown out the rest of the noise, that’s where fulfillment and happiness lies.

That it has really nothing to do with accomplishments and hustling and all the other capitalist goals were meant to pay attention to, but it’s like these everyday moments when we’re outside or with our friends or seeing a sunset and. And having that be a form of self-care and to fill up our cup.

Yeah. So we just don’t get distracted by other people’s journeys. It’s like anchoring back into what it is we’re meant to do here.

✨ Closing Statements

Grace: Yeah. And I also feel like with Ten of Pentacles, I always think about legacy and what we’re passing down to the next generation. And so part of seeking out our true, authentic selves is also recognizing that we don’t need to pass on the same patterns to the next generation, a sense that I’m getting too is like feelings we can pass on appreciation for where we come from, and also appreciation for the future. Appreciation for the present moment, appreciation for the next road trip. Appreciation for the most beautiful memories that you create with your loved ones.

And I feel like that could be something that we could be proud of to pass on because it’s not necessarily tangible, but it’s still felt and it’s still remembered. And sometimes those things are much more remembered than let’s say, checking off something on your to-do list or achieving that goal or whatever it is.

And it is so funny that you pulled the Temperance Card as well, because we quite literally were talking about it this entire episode. So to see her, in her glory in the hot tub, I feel is a sign. If you need a break, anyone who’s listening, go take that break. Take care of yourself. Give yourself the appreciation that you need because you do deserve it.

You do matter, and I think that’s when true alchemy can take place when you actually take time to rest.

I wanna thank you so much, Elizabeth, for joining us today, sharing your insights. Your vulnerability, your wisdom, and also for sharing your creation process on how you created the Adventure Tarot. I’m so glad it’s out there in the world.

It’s much needed. Thank you so much for being here.

Elizabeth: Thank you so much for having me. I had so much fun. It was such a heartfelt conversation, and I’m grateful for the opportunity. Yeah.

Grace: All right, bye.

Elizabeth: Bye!

✨ End of Episode – Make Sure to Leave a Podcast Review!

Grace: Thanks so much for tuning in to today’s episode with Elizabeth Su. I’m so glad Elizabeth was able to be so vulnerable with us and share not just her wins, but also her struggles.

Alchemy can be created in any moment, and especially when we can recognize how we’re growing, how we’re evolving, and also the ways that we are transforming ourselves in every moment. I’m curious. How do you relate to the Temperance Card? Let me know in the comments how you define alchemy and how you bring in more kindness, love, and gentleness into your everyday life.

And as a reminder, we are doing a giveaway of Elizabeth’s deck, the Adventure Tarot, over on Instagram and YouTube. So check us out over there for more details.

Until next time, if you’ve been needing a break, take it because you very much deserve it. Sending you grace today and every day.

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