00:00 Episode Preview

00:30 Opening

01:05 Introduction

02:13 Giveaway

02:47 Interview Begins with Marcella Kroll

04:15 Tarot as a Silent Friend

07:02 A Sense of Identity and Belonging

08:38 From Hiding to Embracing My Truth

10:53 Facing Fear and Finding Acceptance

14:16 Finding Acceptance in Liminal Spaces

16:07 The Ghost That Hid My USB Cord

16:53 Embracing the Ride-or-Die Nature of My Craft

18:32 Impact Over Praise: True Validation

20:39 Finding Magic in Lineage and Heritage

23:56 AD – Join our Tarot for Alchemy Course https://learntarot.mysticmondays.com/

26:02 Creativity vs. Consumption: A Delicate Balance

29:16 Embracing the Hanged One’s Divine Timing

32:10 Why Your Voice Matters: Reaching Those Who Need You

33:14 Attracting the Right People with True Expression

34:12 Offering Yourself for Greater Good

36:28 When Ideas Won’t Leave You Alone

39:19 Challenging Dynamics: Teens vs. Adults

40:13 The Shift from Teen to Adult: When Does It Happen?

41:11 Deities as Family: A Sacred Connection

42:22 Fast Five Questions

43:54 Collective Reading from the Nature Nurture Oracle by Marcella Kroll

45:19 Closing Statements

46:24 End of Episode – Make Sure to Leave a Podcast Review!

47:33 Recommended Videos

Welcome to the GRACED Podcast! A space for everyday magic for your everyday life. We do this through rituals, aligning yourself to your soul’s purpose, and creating Alchemy to heal our mind, body, and spirits so that you can bring in more love and joy, manifest your desires, and believe in your dreams. Listen and watch over at graceduong.com/podcast and on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Instagram, TikTok and all the places you can find me on social media.

Now let’s dive into today’s episode.

💖 Introduction

Grace: Welcome to the GRACED Podcast, a space where we talk about everyday magic for your everyday life.

Today’s guest is Marcella Kroll, an artist, performer, and psychic medium. She is also the author of four decks, the latest being the Nature Nurture Oracle deck, which she does give a collective reading from this deck at the very end of this episode, so stay tuned all the way to the end for that. We also talk about themes of the Hanged Man or Hanged Woman in my deck, the Mystic Mondays Tarot, or the Hanged One, which is what Marcella refers to her Hanged One tarot card in her deck, the Dreamers tarot. We talk about how to get through stagnant moments, divine timing, the power of symbols, and so much more.

And if you’d like to get to know yourself better, better, I highly recommend checking out your Tarot Birth Cards to understand the central themes of your life. I happen to have a free calculator on mysticmondays.com to calculate your Tarot Birth Cards, along with extensive and in depth reports for your Tarot Birth Cards, which are available to order online. Check it out on our website for more information.

And we are doing a giveaway of Marcella’s deck, the Nature Nurturer Oracle deck, now on all platforms. When you fill out the giveaway form, check out how to enter this giveaway on Instagram and YouTube on the Grace Duong and Mystic Mondays channels.

Now let’s dive into this episode.

✨ Interview Begins with Marcella Kroll

Grace: Hi, Marcella. Welcome to the GRACED Podcast.

Marcella: Hi, thanks for having me. It’s nice to see you.

Grace: Yeah, definitely. So I actually got a tarot reading from you a really long time ago at the mystic journey bookstore in Venice when I used to live in LA. And I’m not sure if you remember that.

But I know I think of that time as a really integral part of my tarot journey because I used to go to the mystic journey bookstore a lot, like pretty frequently. Yeah, definitely. to receive these hero readings or channeling and all of that. I even brought like visiting family members there because it was just like a huge part of my journey and getting into tarot and spirituality.

And yeah, I just wanted to thank you because you were a part of that. Even if it was just the one reading that while ago.

Marcella: Oh, you’re so welcome. Yeah. Mystic journey was. It was definitely a formidable shift in my work because I was been doing readings, but it was the first kind of place that I took my work professionally when they opened in 2008, I responded to a Craigslist ad about a spiritual bookstore and opening in Venice.

Yeah, and kind of kicked off from there. I ended up just met so many people. It was such a meeting spot, so yeah, what a time.

Grace: Yeah, and then I was mentioning to you offline, it was like a full circle moment for me because I also had my first book signing there. So it’s really cool how having those moments and also reconnecting with you years later.

✨ Tarot as a Silent Friend

Grace: And I think that brings us to a really good question of like, how did you get into your spiritual journey and tarot reading and being a deck creator? Because you’ve created multiple decks that I have right in front of me. How did that all start for you?

Marcella: It started earlier on, like in my teens, where I had an interest in magical things.

I grew up in New England area, and the spooky stuff was always kind of at the forefront of things. But when I was 18, I actually had a near death experience. experience and I turned more to astrology and tarot as a means of comfort and figuring out trying to ask myself these deep kind of questions that nobody could really answer for me.

And it was always kind of my silent friend in that way. And over the years I kind of would do readings here and there, but it wasn’t something that I thought would be profession. I was more interested in art and creating a life around being an artist. And then there was just so many different life circumstances where it kept coming back up.

It led me to not being able to do any other work was very clear apparent. I had always wanted to create a deck because I’m, like I said, I’m an artist first and foremost, and never really had the opportunity to. Do it like it kept eluding me because life takes you in different directions. Any who I’d done artist residencies and tried to execute a deck, but it wasn’t until 2012 when I left LA for briefly, like for like six months and had a moment of, it doesn’t have to be a tarot deck like it was more of a divination.

It kind of started from there because my first deck came out in 2013 and you know, there was no answers. There was no at like tools to access. I didn’t have connections to anyone. It was just a guiding force. And then it’s interesting because flash forward I self published for almost 10 years.

And then I got an agent and a publisher and reissued the decks that I’ve been creating on my own, but also simultaneously over these years, I reconnected with my biological father and I did not know him and I found out through him that it actually runs. in my family. So my grandmother who I talked to for the first time when I was 42 was a tarot reader at Woodstock.

And he also, my dad is like psychic and all of these things that I did not know actually ran in the family.

Grace: Wow. That’s incredible. It’s been a journey. Yeah. And I do feel like the Hanged Woman in my deck, I refer to this card as a Hanged Woman. And in your deck, I know you have this card as a Hanged One. And I do feel like the themes of this card are a lot about patience, sacrifice, also a shift in perspective.

✨ A Sense of Identity and Belonging

Grace: And so how did this life, what would you call it? Life opportunity or life revelation bring awareness to you? Like, what did you think from that moment on when you finally met your biological father and understood this part of yourself?

Marcella: I think it’s more, even in the first conversation we ever had on the telephone, it was affirming because the first thing he said to me on the phone, our first conversation was I looked you up on the Internet and I saw you took that gift of ours and turned it into a living. And it was like, this sense of identity and belonging and constantly feeling misunderstood or like, there was something wrong with me.

All there was a validation or at least an understanding because growing up, no one could tell me and it wasn’t popular. Like, yes, there was this mystical and kind of connected, but I grew up in Rhode Island. They were like, that’s weird. I had two very separate lives going, I had my kind of more magical, mystical stuff.

And then I had my like artists, rock and roll friends so to have not necessarily someone I could get complete answers from, but to have some inkling that like, it wasn’t all just made up in my head. That was definitely. It made parts of it. It’s like when you have a client and you’re like, wow, this is why I do what I do.

Like, there’s enough affirmation. Yeah.

Grace: Yeah. And I do feel like a lot of why I sought out readings was for that affirmation, for that confirmation from another source, whether it was channeling or even just like the confidence to go forward. And what I’m also hearing from you is also this bridging between two identities of this artist side of yourself and the spiritual side of yourself.

✨ From Hiding to Embracing My Truth

Grace: Was that part of like shifting your perspective or life circumstances that brought you to that point to bring them together? Like, why did you feel like they needed to be separate at first? And what was that point when you decided like, no, these are two parts of me and they’re integrated.

Marcella: I mean, it was a lot of acceptance.

You know, like, it was not cool to be into magic and witchcraft stuff when I was growing up or hanging out in my communities. It’s way more accepted now. I would say that really didn’t shift and change. I didn’t see a change for things until 2012, 2013, but before that, it was not something I saw as acceptable. I grew up in a witch burning country and it’s way different now.

A lot has happened in a short amount of time. And I am grateful that more people are just, they’re open and they’re curious. It just wasn’t like that for a long time and bridging them together only made sense. sense to me because I am most at home and feel like I’m living my purpose when I am creating.

Bridging them together felt like a natural marriage and a way for me to introduce all of me to the world versus me in parts, which is something that on a personal note, I’ve always had to do, like hold parts of myself forward and hide the rest because you know, not everybody wants to see it. This is a place where I feel like I can be truly all of me.

The readings at first for me to started out as survival. You know, I really did not know that this was going to be my career and more people like, how’d you get into it? And I’m like survival, I would trade readings for a meal. You know, like it wasn’t something that I really realized was something that I was still going forward with until it probably took me, even though I’d been working full time doing readings since 2009, it probably took me until about 2015 to go, oh, wow, this is actually my work.

Grace: Yeah, yeah, and I’m also hearing there has been a shift in perspective in the collective consciousness of being able to accept witchcraft spells like the magical side of things or the world or it’s just like more popular now, which I totally understand having grown up in the northeast as well. And then when I got to LA I was just like, wow, it’s like everywhere. I was just much more exposed to it and it felt very natural.

✨ Facing Fear and Finding Acceptance

Grace: So would you say that there has been a shift in perspective from what you’ve seen from like how people in the past have reacted to what you do in the past to like how people are reacting now?

Marcella: Majorly. I mean, for so many reasons. I don’t know if you know this, but like I taught with the Los Angeles Public Library for 14 years. I did a Tarot for Teens program. I started off because I worked at the library as a messenger clerk. And one of the librarians knew that I read Tarot. And it was kind of taboo even at that time.

It was like right before I started fully working at Mystic Journey full time. They were like, would you ever teach a class? And I’m like, I don’t know. They don’t want that. And they’re like, no, they do. And so this was in like 2008. And I was like, okay, well, it was around the same time, the Mystic Journey thing.

And I had gotten laid off from the library because they were doing cuts. I was like, well, all right, I’ll do the presentation, but I didn’t think anything of it. And the LA Public Library is one of the most amazing open minded places. So it got me to learn how to really look at the historic element of tarot and divination, but also share it from a knowledge perspective.

Not just like, it got me to share it respectfully, not like a party trick. What happened was is I really didn’t think it was going to go anywhere, but over the years, I mean, I ended up doing it for 14 years. I only retired doing it last year because I was moving out of state. To see that grow and find reverence from people versus when I first started doing like those classes or I would be out in public with my little sandwich board sign at the Rose Bowl.

I would have people yelling at me, telling me that I was going to hell and like all of these things. Now you can’t look around a corner without. Finding a reader, like before I would set up in the back of my friend’s bookstore cafe in Echo Park, I would do readings for 20 bucks back there and I couldn’t beg people to come get a reading.

And that’s in 2008, 2009. It’s just changed dramatically. The fear aspect is. kind of lifted. And I like that people are seeing it more now as more of a self awareness tool versus this is a party trick. And I’m going to tell you all about your future because yeah, maybe sometimes some future predictions come up for me.

This is more about getting to know the inner workings of you and build your own trust and confidence with your intuition. And that’s why the dreamers came out because That Dreamer’s Tarot is a non binary, more archetypal deck. And the reason why I did it that way was because of those kids over the years and their influence about how to make this deck evolved.

Because traditional tarot is very archaic in some ways. And the hang one was to release the gender kind of binary, but look more at the archetypal energies and how we hold them.

Grace: Yeah, absolutely. So I have a stack of all of your decks that your publisher sent me. So for anyone that doesn’t know, Marcella is referring to her dreamers tarot, which she created the art for and also wrote the descriptions for.

And I do feel like this is very easy to digest and understand. And I feel like also you work with a lot of symbolism, which I really felt the message. going through the cards and recording the deck unboxings, which I do for the decks that I feature here on the GRACED Podcast. But something I heard from you earlier was something about acceptance.

And I’m also curious about how the history of tarot and anything that you’ve learned, like what has shaped the way you view tarot before you learned all that history to now and how you view it now.

✨ Finding Acceptance in Liminal Spaces

Grace: But let’s go back to the question about acceptance because you’re saying when people were telling you, you would go to hell and you know, they’re yelling in your face and all of that stuff.

stuff like in the face of that adversity or even like aggression, right? Like how did you learn to cultivate that acceptance even when people were quite literally screaming at you?

Marcella: Because this, I mean, it sounds dramatic, but it’s tarot and the occult things. Those were the only liminal spaces were the only places that let me be myself.

Growing up as a one multiracial person, later finding out that I’m autistic, it just never fitting in. It was the only place that really let me just exist without having to be something or categorized into something. It was, I love storytelling. I love. Art. I love the magical journey of the way you can pick up symbolism in cards and the way you can tell or create with them.

And there’s an acceptance within it where I felt again, when you’re someone who’s like in between spaces a lot, and you have a lot of people telling you, no, you don’t belong to have a place that fully allows you warts and all to be yourself. It was safe for me to be in there versus. I, when I was a kid, I used to just like all my friends growing up, everyone was like different religions or ethnicities.

And I’d want to go and be like, can I go to your church? Can I go to your temple? Can I go to your Bible study? I was so curious because I thought I needed to figure out where I fit in and what resonated nothing ever quite settled except for liminal spaces. So the spaces in between, I feel like that tarot and divination, all forms of divination, by the way, I love all forms of divination, are a vehicle to allow you to exist within those confines without feeling less or less than.

✨ The Ghost That Hid My USB Cord

Grace: Yeah, I think that’s fascinating because for example, I was subletting a place in New York one summer and I know there was a ghost there. I know that ghost was trying to talk to me. I could feel its presence. It hid a USB cord for me. And I was like looking around that apartment for like 45 minutes straight trying to look for that cord.

And all of a sudden it’s on the couch and I’m like, there’s no way that ghost was fucking with me. And there’s so much fear sometimes. You know, with the unseen, right, where we don’t fully understand something and we might cast our own shadows and judgments and projections and whatnot. It’s just interesting because I think I too felt safe in a space where I felt understood, especially not feeling like I really belonged anywhere to I can fully relate to that feeling.

✨ Embracing the Ride-or-Die Nature of My Craft

Grace: And how did you find safety in parts of the unseen when you’re dealing with. let’s say ghosts or spirits or things of that nature. I think

Marcella: because sometimes well for me I’ve always like seen stuff and was very dismissed as a kid for seeing stuff or again like the fear. I grew up a lot with my Italian Catholic grandmother but I also seen a lot of things probably kids shouldn’t see and it always felt safer to be in the invisible world than in the physical one because that felt more dangerous.

To me, and you know, just to add to that, it’s like in the popularity and the commercialization of tarot and witchcraft and all those things, like it feels less safe to me now. So because that belonging isn’t so universal and that might be controversial, but I’m finding that like, while I am glad, cause I’m just putting this out there and I’m glad that there is more acceptance.

I do have some trepidation about the commercialization of it in a big way. And some people will be like, well, you got a publisher and you’re more putting stuff out there and you’re part of it because I feel like this is what I came here to do. It definitely feels like it’s my purpose to find those liminal spaces and make them tangible.

And this might be popular right now, but it might wane in popularity, but I’m still going to be doing it. Yeah. Ride or die. I have no choice. Apparently like finding out that it’s. also related to my lineage my father’s side. I’m just like, okay.

Grace: Yeah. And so when you are embarking on your creation process and even like fully encompassing your purpose, as you said, it sounds like you also went through some challenges, right?

✨ Impact Over Praise: True Validation

Grace: So what were some of the signs for you that was like, this is it. I’m not going to waver here. I know that this is part of my past. What were some signs of alignment or some synchronicities that you experienced?

Marcella: There’s so many, but I have to say, it’s more of a feeling in my body. Like there’s no resistance or even when I’ve put challenges out to the world, like when I first made sacred symbols, the first edition, 2013, I literally, I printed a hundred and I thought, you know what, there’s going to be 50 of these that collect dust.

I didn’t think anything of it. And then I said, you know what? They were selling out and then more kept happening and more kept happening. And I just said, you know what? I’m, I’m going to like, let this go. If the universe wants it to happen, it’ll make it happen. And I’ll continue doing it until there’s like a clear, no, the drain has stopped.

The flow has stopped. And yes, there are moments I think as an artist where we like retreat and we like. feel like we’re not being inspired. We might have a block, but actually I think it’s because we’re pulling in so much information process that we haven’t quite figured out how yet to express it. And also I have to feel totally like excited.

It sounds bratty, but it’s true. Like I cannot do anything I don’t care about. Like some people can, they can just churn out. stuff, but like my body will physically clam up or break down or not be able to go. But if it’s right, it’s like all forward motion. I get hyper focused. I get lost in the sauce kind of just in the zone and the life affirming moments for me have not been because someone told me I did a good job.

It’s been because I’ve seen the impact that it helps someone else in a way that maybe I couldn’t do as a reader, but I gave them something to help them see inside themselves. To me, that’s more of a validation than anything.

Grace: Yeah. So here is your sacred symbols deck. And when I was going through these cards, I felt so much magic, so much research through the symbols that you drew.

And I felt a lot of power through this. deck. And I think that also goes to the knowledge that you’ve accumulated from the history that you’ve learned.

✨ Finding Magic in Lineage and Heritage

Grace: So what has been some of the most powerful tidbits from history of whether it was tarot or Oracle or divination that you felt like was pivotal in your journey?

Marcella: Oh, man, there’s so many. The edition that you have in your hand is the fourth edition. So I just would like to tell people that as I learn, I want to grow and evolve and do better. And the first, even though I’m very proud of the first edition, the second edition, the third edition in the fourth edition, they’re different because you will notice.

A very different artistic style change. Once you get to the third edition, because of more information coming forward, because of wanting to respect to not extract from certain identities and cultures, because I think that we as humans evolve, our tools should evolve as well. I think it’s fascinating that the tarot has.

It’s history from early 1400s, but there’s been divination since the dawn of time and all of those things factor into it. And I definitely think reconnecting with, I had a lot of animosity towards my like Italian side for a long time, but then learning more about the Gennare and the Stigeria, like more traditional practices helped me find a new appreciation for.

Folk magic versus just trying to lean into something pagan in the same with finding my biological father and his lineage of being Wampanoag tribe and Filipino and finding the magic in those cultures as well. I think it’s all inspirational. It’s all influential. It’s all the, how do I fit into the mix?

Not being from one or the other. And how do I translate that to a way that can still support? Or my journey, but also maybe other people who feel like they don’t, they’re blended or they don’t fit in particularly that they want to connect magically, because I think that as humans, that’s all we really want is to find connection and community.

And a lot of this day and age is so separated. So I don’t know if that answers your question, but it’s like, I just feel like there’s so many sources of moments in my life. I’ve had three near death experiences. It just changes things, you know?

Grace: Wow. Do you mind telling us more about the near death experiences?

Marcella: I mean, I’ll be kind of brief with it because it can be kind of a lot for people. You know, my first experience was as a six month old, which I clearly, I don’t remember, but I definitely think it impacted my sense of being here for a number of reasons.

My second was at 18, I overdosed, was self medicating a lot. And that’s when I really, when I was in treatment, I got into the hand reading charts for entertainment and learning about cards.

And then at 33, actually in LA, at the beginning of my work, like becoming a reader and all that. And it was, it was really a lot to be so aware of everything all the time. And I just couldn’t see a purpose. And it was a lot of pain, but that’s when I started working full time, it was like a new assignment, the new reason to be here and I am fortunate, I think, and grateful that I made it through that time.

But, yeah, I feel like there’s always moments that are going to keep inspiring and wanting to enjoy the evolution of being here.

Grace: Absolutely. Yeah.

✨ Creativity vs. Consumption: A Delicate Balance

Grace: I feel like with the challenges that we have help write our stories, it’s not always easy, but it also builds resilience and obviously your perspective and your point of view. Would you say that you felt any moments of. Feeling stagnant or stuck in your journey? Because I want to highlight the Hanged One because I feel like for anyone I’ve gone through these moments as well, just feeling stuck and not being able to move forward.

What were some things that helped you get out of that? If you feel like you’re in a rut moment or something like that?

Marcella: Just to be totally transparent, it’s like, I feel stuck all the time, even though I will have these moments of productivity and awareness of things. I more often than not have imposter syndrome about existing and the surrender process and having to have faith and having to trust.

I don’t know if it’s my own innate curiosity that keeps me going and knowing that the only thing you can count on is that things do change and you also never know what can happen and that life as challenging as it is and can be brutal. There’s also things that. I know are so special and I don’t know, maybe it’s FOMO.

I don’t want to miss it. So even though I have a tendency to be kind of melancholy or I’ve been accused of being like so sad all the time, there’s also a beauty of things that I feel very privileged to be able to notice about existing that goes over some people’s heads. So, knowing that I can still appreciate beauty, whatever that means, keeps me going.

And sometimes we do have to like, I’m just coming out of a three year, like, hermitude and I’m relearning how to human again. You don’t have to uproot your whole life to make a change, but just deciding to do things even slightly different can help. Also, I think if you’re having a hard time being inspired, it is harder when we’re just looking at our phones all day, and we’re just consuming.

So, I’m going to be talking about the art of consuming, consuming, consuming, because I think a lot of people consume, they don’t create, or they think they’re creating, but they’re actually regurgitating things that they saw. Because there’s also a fear of getting it wrong. So, we live in this safe little bubble, and then we’re miserable.

Go see some art. Go touch a tree. Go do things that remind you why you got up today. Because, yeah, there’s always going to be something terrible to find that’s going to haunt you. And the other thing, too, is like I said earlier, we’re creative beings. We can’t be just expediting ideas all the time. We have to take quiet time.

We have to take things in. We have to nurture and nourish ourselves, recharge our batteries. And also, I think the rush to make things is another problem, because things I truly do believe come when they’re supposed to. Like, projects and things, they get birthed when they’re supposed to, not because we want them to.

I’ve done that where I’ve jumped the gun, and I’ve pushed for things to happen. And you know what? I mistakenly thought the idea was crap. But maybe it wasn’t crap. It wasn’t ready yet. It was too early. Or perhaps, I wasn’t ready to deal with the responsibility of what it brought. So we have to remember there’s gonna be this ebb and flow and up and down. And that is just existing.

✨ Embracing the Hanged One’s Divine Timing

Grace: Yeah, I also feel like with sadness, it’s an overwhelming feeling a lot of the times. There’s so much beauty in sadness, actually, like when you’re watching these cinematic movies and that main character is going through something, you can fully relate to how they’re feeling. It reminds me of this movie, Past Lives.

I don’t know if you’ve seen it. Yeah, and this character has childhood friend that she has feelings for, or they have feelings for each other, but she’s now married. And you know, at the end, not to spoil it for everybody who hasn’t watched it, but you know, there’s just some mixed feelings there. Some mixed feelings that we can relate to in terms of what would life be like if I had made a different choice?

Or there’s just so much nuance. in complicated feelings and sadness and feeling like we’re stuck or feeling like we’re not ready to move forward or wondering why something is taking so long to create. And I do feel like a lot of the Hanged One is also about that divine timing that you were talking about that’s suspension period, because perhaps there’s something that still needs to be metamorphosis maybe you’re still like in the shell, creating your wings or something like that.

Uh, that’s something that I’ve been asking myself whenever I’ve been feeling impatient, why isn’t this thing happening yet? Or why is this so hard or et cetera, et cetera. And sometimes I just have to check myself and ask myself, like, what am I learning in this moment? Like, there’s a reason why this is taking so long.

And I do feel like with creation, there does need to be a period of hermitude. You know, you do have to go away in your cave and just like connect the dots, create research get inspired. And a lot of that you have to be alone for, because I think that there’s a lot of influence in the outside world where you then compare yourself to, Oh, well that person’s doing it that way.

Like maybe I should do it like that. Or, Oh, well they’re getting this many likes or how do I compare to that? And I think that stops. Anyone from discovering themselves if you’re not taking that time to be alone.

Marcella: Absolutely. And I, I just see it all too often with social media and performing and I’ve seen so many of my ideas, like unconsciously lifted or words lifted because.

People are just consuming, and then they’re regurgitating. They’re not even aware where they’re drawing all this from. And I think it’s important you have to really go, wait a minute, is that an idea that is in the collective conscious? Or did I just like see a bunch of subtle things? How do I also share this in my own voice?

Because it’s really easy to project an idea in any voice we want these days. So really touching in with yourself. And then also knowing when it’s not your voice and being okay. I don’t know enough yet about this. So people ask me this stuff about all the time. And sometimes I have to tell people, I don’t know.

I haven’t thought about it enough. I need time alone with my thoughts, not with everyone’s opinion before I can share.

✨ Why Your Voice Matters: Reaching Those Who Need You

Grace: So for anyone who is looking to better craft their voice, what would you tell them?

Marcella: Do trust exercises with yourself. Really get to know your intuition. I love utilizing Tarot and Oracle to do relationship readings between me and my higher self.

There is, yes, I think we have a society that got a problem with Individualism, but I think the beauty of individualism is like finding out what makes you tick. So you’re not like everybody else, but like, how do you balance out or bring things to the table? And what is your specialty? Look at your chart.

Look at your challenges. Look at your gifts. What is it about you? Because that’s also it can be like you said, looking and be like, oh, that person saying it this way. And they’ve got a lot of likes and they’ve got a lot of this, but not everybody can hear that person. Maybe someone can hear you or needs to hear you.

Grace: Right. I always say as a reader, you are the divine channel and your experiences are what help filter that information because you’re saying it in a way where you are relating it back to you to then say it through your mouth to that other person for them to understand it in that way. So maybe someone else can channel similar information, but they’re not seeing it in a way that might resonate with you or the other person.

✨ Attracting the Right People with True Expression

Grace: So I feel like understanding that you have a unique message to share and not letting that be convoluted by like, Oh, that person’s doing it that way. Or like, I should probably do it that way because it seems like that’s the way to go. It’s kind of like tuning into what’s authentic for you to then express, because I do feel like, especially through social media, it’s really all about energy.

So if like you’re expressing something in authentically, other people can probably feel that. And even though you’re maybe copying how someone else is doing it, they might not resonate with you because. They could probably feel it’s not authentic to you and how you want to express it.

Marcella: Absolutely. I think, yeah, vibes don’t lie, no matter how you dress it up.

So I think that’s the other thing too, just like for anyone who’s dealing with kind of imposter syndrome in their own path and their own craft is like, do it for you, don’t do it for other people. And that, that will draw the right people to you.

✨ Offering Yourself for Greater Good

Grace: Yeah. Do you feel like there’s an element of sacrifice that needs to be had in one’s life or in the creation process?

Since The Hanged One is so much about sacrifice too.

Marcella: I think so, but is it sacrifice or is it self preservation or nurturing? I mean, sometimes sacrifice means like, it’s not about depriving to me, but it’s about an offering versus a sacrifice. You know, what am I offering? Am I offering myself? I’m not saying I’m sacrificing myself.

But I’m offering myself as a vehicle or I’m offering my, my prayers or my energy or my intention for this exchange of support or being held, or maybe it feels like a sacrifice. But to me, it’s always just a temporary discomfort in exchange for a longer term, greater good or a more security. So if I have to sacrifice, like I just sacrifice.

Three years of social. It was painful. Don’t get me wrong. Like last three years have been very emotionally painful, physically painful. I had a lot of things I had to purge and let go of, but, and I couldn’t see why, but now where I’ve landed and I’m still uncovering and discovering this new reality, I can see how it was for, I was for a greater good, even if I couldn’t see it in that moment.

So I think that’s the other, that’s the trust fall right in the Hanged One. And also with the Hanged One and that card with the bat to me, bats are very symbolic of death and initiation in your journey. They’re not a cakewalk it’s shadow and really looking at those highlighted things that you’ve been not looking at that feeling of when you’re not distracted by all of the nuances of the day to day, then you have time to be in your own brain.

And I think that’s the big thing with the Hanged One is, okay, you’re going to sit here and you’re going to really look at what. It’s at the core of these things. So is it a sacrifice or is it a reorientation of priority?

Grace: Yeah, I really like that temporary discomfort because they’re not going to be hanging up there all of time.

You know, they’re going to have to get down at some point, but you know, that suspension is helpful in recentering oneself resetting priorities. Getting a new perspective, understanding oneself.

✨ When Ideas Won’t Leave You Alone

Grace: So what is your deck creation process like? Because I’m curious in how you approach your decks, how you draw inspiration.

You know, what does that look like for you?

Marcella: I mean, it’s pretty different each time. Like with Sacred Symbols, the first kind of iteration of it was I just getting the words. Like, first, I’m just writing them down. With Nature Nurture, the first edition of it, it was the first thing I made when I got sober seven and a half years ago.

I was getting a haunting pressure from my guides. I would get this idea, to me it’s like any idea that it just won’t go away, it just keeps popping up. Like, I keep thinking about it and I’m like, ah. And I kept ignoring it. I got stuff to do it, but it came to the point where it just felt like somebody kept reminding me, you got to make this, you got to make this.

So when that happened, I like, just sat down when I’m in the zone, I can hyper focus and get things done pretty quickly. But I know that’s not the case for everyone. So some people think like, oh, you’re doing a lot so much. And I’m like, yeah, but you don’t see the 6. Eight months, I do nothing or I’m having a meltdown and an identity crisis about my purpose.

So yeah, they just pop in sometimes pop in my head or roast iconic Oracle that came from it started off as I got booked to do a recreation of two tarot cards for a TV show. So some friend of mine had a TV show on HBO, a search party, and they were like, we’re going to do this influencer character and they’re going to have cards.

So it started off as like, Okay, I can make some snarky cards for this. But then I was like, you know what, this would be an amazing deck just to roast people to get them out of their seriousness. So I just kept going and I kept making more cards and it turned into that. And then the, I guess the Dreamer’s Tarot was full on.

I tried to make a deck, but it never felt right with the traditional iconography. But my 14 years of working with teenagers, I was like, this is why because it needs to evolve. And then I just happened to have time because of the lockdown, which before that I just didn’t have time. I would think about it, but you do need to dedicate time.

So maybe it’s me too. There was like a sacrifice. I had to lose my office space and my day to day to focus on it. It wasn’t like an, I I was like, well, I got to do something. I’ve got to work on this idea that’s haunting me. So yeah, I just, I don’t know. I think there’s so many processes. I just get, I get a lot of like, I have notebooks of ideas.

Do I execute them all? No. Sometimes I have ideas that have been sitting in journals and it won’t be, then all of a sudden I get motivated or it just depends. My brain’s always going, which is frustrating, and I think sometimes I don’t like suffering. The starving artist thing doesn’t make me want to make more work, makes me very stressed out.

Grace: Agreed.

✨ Challenging Dynamics: Teens vs. Adults

Grace: So, what would you say is the biggest difference between working with teenagers versus working with adults?

Marcella: Teens are hilarious. They’re honest at least I’ve always had a relationship with people younger than me where they didn’t treat me like an adult. I don’t know if it’s because I’m really short and I always joke, like, I look like a Muppet.

But there is like this quality of adults are constantly trying to impress each other or teens for me are always like so open to learning, but also schooling you. Sometimes working with adults is challenging, especially when there can be a dynamic that feels triggering or threatening. So, I don’t know, I just, I love teens.

They rightfully challenge me in a way that is actually impressive and inclusive and not based on the insecurities that some adults have. They make me be honest, they make me, let me be awkward, and they don’t judge me for it.

✨ The Shift from Teen to Adult: When Does It Happen?

Grace: Where do you think that transition is from teenage to adult? Like, when does that happen when people start to want to impress each other or would you say that starts during the teenage years?

Marcella: I’m seeing it start younger and younger now just because of like social media. But I do think with access to things more readily available, that some, I don’t know. It’s interesting because I feel like it’s more of a thing, a problem I see with adults than I do with teens.

For me personally, I was always trying to impress other people by trying on different identities when I was younger to try to fit in. No, I think it’s so different now. I have a lot of faith in the younger generation because a lot of them also are so thick skinned and they don’t care. Like they have just a different, I would never have survived trolls or social media when I was their age, like 14, 15, you know?

So, I don’t know, maybe it’s a problem that will become more obsolete with this new generation. Hopefully.

✨ Deities as Family: A Sacred Connection

Grace: Hopefully. Do you have any symbols that you like to use like for boundaries or protection, manifestation?

Marcella: There’s different deities that I work with that I call, like, they’re my family members.

Essentially, there’s different herbs that I like to work with. Or I also like to tell people, like, you don’t need to have expensive witch kit. Work with what you have. A pen and paper is your biggest ally. Writing it down, getting it out, imagining it, just working with what works for you personally.

What deities and herbs that you like to work with? Oh, I’m so, I mean, like I work with Santissima a lot. I have her on my Santa Marte and then I work with a lot of the Naderu, the Egyptian gods, they were my first connection to a lot of my magical practice. And it’s interesting, too, because in researching my identity and all that, too, it’s like I have seven, eight generations back.

I have Coptic Egyptian from my mom’s side. So I thought that was interesting how it’s also like embedded culturally. And Yarrow is great for boundary. I like working with resins. So, Dragon’s Blood and things like that, just to help set the tone, also using sound to shift spaces and things.

Grace: Yeah, love sound.

✨ Fast Five Questions

Grace: We’re gonna move into our Fast Five questions.

What’s your sun, moon, and rising?

Marcella: Pisces sun, Aries moon, Aquarius rising.

Grace: Oh, we’re flipped! I’m Aries sun, Pisces moon.

Marcella: Right on.

Grace: Yeah.

What advice would you give to your younger self?

Marcella: Go for it. Just go for it. It’ll be okay.

Grace: How would you define everyday magic?

Marcella: Everyday magic is not letting it be something that you just take on and off like an outfit. It’s something you incorporate into everything you do be it big or small.

Grace: What are some of your favorite rituals?

Marcella: I love a good clearing ritual, like in the shower, releasing cords, connections, attachments to anyone or anything that I’ve connected to consciously, unconsciously, in real life, in the astral or online.

That is a major one that I need to do. And I like enjoy to do like, I’d say every other day or so. So I can feel like I can hear myself think I love cord cutting rituals. Not because of the disconnection in a really abrupt way, but just to kind of, again, like, come back to center. So, yeah, I also like when I was traveling in Egypt in 2022 with 22 Teachings, the Hermetic school, I went over there to teach with them and we did a lot of rituals in the different temples.

Solar adorations we were doing and lesser banishing pentagram ritual. Those are really powerful to do as a group. Even though I’m mostly solitary, I do enjoy doing that on a group level.

✨ Collective Reading from the Nature Nurture Oracle by Marcella Kroll

Grace: Beautiful. Now let’s end with a collective reading from Marcella.

Marcella: I’m going to use my Nature Nurture Oracle and love to pull, I’m gonna pull two and just kind of see like what is something that we can let go of at this time. And then I’ll pull a second one to see what we can call in to support us collectively.

What are we, what can we let go of? What can we call in? Okay, perfect. Well, we got it. Let go, we got. The desert, which is resilient, which I think is pretty perfect for right now because we are always so, just get through it, be resilient, be tough, get through the dry desert.

I think we can let go of this idea that we have to be just this survival or the desert is beautiful. The desert is magical. The desert is, it’s really tough though. And I think sometimes we think that in order for us to be worthy of existing, we have to just keep pushing ourselves. And then what’s calling to support us.

We’ve got the acorn, which is wisdom. So inviting in wisdom and knowledge, not just from what books or other people or stories. Inviting in wisdom that we don’t have at the moment that would maybe be formidable for helping us move forward. So we don’t feel like we have to do this all the time. Yeah. Yeah.

There we go.

Grace: I love that. Yeah, like wisdom streams of wisdom in the desert.

Marcella: Right? Exactly.

✨ Closing Statements

Grace: Well, thank you so much for your time and the beautiful reading. This was such a pleasure. I feel like there’s so much grasp like acorns to grasp on to from this interview and for anyone that has felt like they’ve gone through a tough time because I feel like the Hanged One is all about, in that moment of just stagnation or being stuck or having the patience, right?

Or like just like kind of like thinking in other ways of how you’re being supported in this moment, rather than like, why is it so hard or challenging obviously depends on your situation, but it’s different for everybody, but this is just encouragement to keep going.

Marcella: Yeah. And just being open to receiving that wisdom, but from a different perspective, that’s a big takeaway from the hang one too, because we often think that we know the only way.

Or to receive messages through a particular way when we need to be open to coming from anywhere. Absolutely.

✨ End of Episode – Make Sure to Leave a Podcast Review!

Grace: Well, this was beautiful. Thank you, Marcella. Thanks so much for having me. Definitely. Okay, bye. Thanks so much for tuning in to today’s episode with Marcella Kroll. I’m so glad we were able to cover themes of the Hanged One, Hanged Man, Hanged Woman, whatever you want to refer to it as.

tarot card with Marcella today and cover topics that aren’t necessarily easy to discuss, but definitely a part of the human experience. It’s natural to feel stuck at times, to feel stagnant, and to feel like things just aren’t moving fast enough. But what if divine timing is at play and everything is working out as it should?

So I want to know, what did you think about this episode? What were some of your biggest takeaways? Leave a comment on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all of the places so that I can hear from you.

And as a reminder, we will be doing a giveaway of Marcella’s deck, the Nature Nurturer Oracle deck. So make sure to follow along on YouTube and Instagram to get all of the details.

Until next time, Mystics, if you are feeling stuck or stagnant in any area of life, know that your time is coming and on its way. Trust and have faith.

Sending you grace today and every day.

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