Hello and welcome to the GRACED podcast, where we infuse everyday magic into your everyday life. Today’s podcast guest is none other than AdamJK, author, speaker, and artist and we talk about the themes of the Fool card – spontaneity, being a free spirit, purity, and new beginnings. He’s also created a tarot deck called OK Tarot and we talk about his process of creating a tarot deck and how he infuses his honesty, humor, and relatable way of drawing and writing into this deck. We talk about taking the leap and trusting the universe, which can feel scary, especially when you don’t know what’s on the other side. We also talk about taking small steps versus taking big leaps and how progress over perfection can help you gain momentum as you move forward. It’s okay to not have all the answers, and in fact, on the back of Adam’s OK Tarot box, it says “It’s not perfect, but it’s ok.” Listen to this episode to gain comfort and wisdom that finding your process takes time and you can often find the answers when you take that leap into the unknown – trusting yourself in the present moment.
Listen to the GRACED Podcast
00:00 Introducing podcast guest AdamJK & OK Tarot Giveaway Announcement
01:47 Diving into the themes of the Fool tarot card
02:51 What does taking the leap mean for you?
05:27 Taking small steps
08:12 Creating the Mystic Mondays Tarot Deck
09:09 Creating the OK Tarot Deck
14:01 Spirituality vs religion in Tarot cards
15:48 The Process of Creating a Deck
18:48 Trusting the Universe
19:28 Creating the It’s a Sign Oracle Deck
24:46 The Power of Collaborating vs Solo Projects
31:59 AD – Join the Create Your Deck Club! www.createyourdeck.club
34:51 Creating Work for a Younger Version of Yourself
37:21 Advice for your Younger Self
41:56 Taking the Leap and Moving
44:56 Grace Leaps Off a Cliff, Literally
46:39 Transitioning
47:26 Adam’s Sun, Moon, Rising Signs
48:34 Adam’s Current Creative Rituals
50:57 Grace Gives Adam a Tarot Reading
54:54 Clearing Space to Manifest
01:01:29 Outro & Giveaway Details
Check out the OK Tarot deck unboxing and giveaway details on YouTube!
Full Transcript
💖 INTRODUCTION
Hello hello! Welcome to the GRACED podcast where we talk about how we can infuse more everyday magic into your everyday life through rituals, wellness, tarot, creativity, and more.
Today’s guest is none other than Adam JK, an author and artist known for his simple illustration work which is rooted in honesty, humor, and as he describes it – a little bit of darkness. I find Adam’s work so relatable because it’s usually thoughts you’re thinking but not actually saying – and you can find Adam’s work through his many books, planners, and other knick knacks like pins.
Adam is also the artist behind the OK Tarot and It’s a Sign Oracle deck and today we dive deep into the Fool card and his creation process behind his decks.
We talk about uncertainty and pushing ourselves beyond our comfort zones – even if it’s a bit scary. Like the Fool card, about to leap off a cliff into the unknown!
I’m so glad to have Adam as my first ever podcast guest and you can find wisdom through his honesty that life is not perfect – and that’s more than okay.
If you want a deeper dive into what his deck is all about, you can check the unboxing video I did of his OK Tarot deck on my YouTube channel, linked in the show notes.
Also, we are doing a special giveaway of three of Adam’s OK Tarot decks, which happen to be SIGNED, but you’ll have to listen through to the end of the episode of how you can enter. Hot tip – follow us on social media and find out the rules through there too!
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✨ Diving into the themes of the Fool tarot card
Grace Duong: Hey, Adam! How’s it going?
Adam JK: Hi! Thanks for having me on the podcast. It’s going really great!
Grace Duong: Awesome! I’m so glad you’re here and today we’re going to be diving into the themes around the Fool card which is all about leaping into the unknown, going into the next adventure of life without necessarily knowing what’s going to happen on the other side, and really trusting in the universe that everything is going to be okay. This something I think that you’re really great at. You know whether it’s taking the leap into your own personal work, encapsulating really complex emotions into really simple, relatable, funny, sometimes dark, relatable… Did I say it again?
Adam JK: It’s relatable. Listen, listen, we’re relating.
Grace Duong: Totally relating and I just feel like what you do speaks to a lot of people, because you’re able to capture things that people might not be comfortable saying.
✨ What does taking the leap mean for you?
Grace Duong: So, I kind of just wanted to talk about what does taking the leap mean for you? And how do you trust yourself to make these big decisions for yourself?
Adam JK: So, I don’t always know that I do trust myself. But I think what I trust in is just that, it doesn’t matter if you fuck up. And historically in my own life, it hasn’t. I have fucked up many times and then people don’t notice, or they do, or like the fucked up version is somehow like the most popular work I’ve ever made that ends up changing my life. So, I think that there’s a lot of times when you don’t need a 100% trust. You need like 90% trust and then I don’t know 10% intuition/stupidity, right? You need to be a little bit… you need to be the Fool. You need to be a little bit dumb dumb dummy dumb. Let me, you know… apple and my little stick bag thingy. because I’m on the journey and I don’t know what I’ll need but I bring my tools with me. I don’t know. It’s so early in the podcast to tell your listeners that I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing, but I don’t and I never have.
Grace Duong: I mean that’s the secret sauce to a lot of things, right?
Adam JK: I think the secret sauce is maybe just embracing your own reality. And some people really do know what they’re doing and then they kind of down playing it, They’re like; “Oh, I don’t know! I don’t know!” it’s like “No, no, no! Just just own your shit!” Whatever your shit is, own it! I own what I’m good at, but I also really really own not having necessarily a plan, not really knowing where I’m going next, not really knowing how to do something until I start, and then kind of do it wrong and then figure it out as I go. When you own that for yourself and when you make that truth for yourself, then it’s a lot easier to take the leap. And to jump, and to trust, because you’re like: Well, I don’t know. True, I acknowledge the truth of that, but I also acknowledge that I have some tools, skills, resources, friends. I can just try and and hope for the best and like if I fuck it up, it’s fine. I’ll figure it out eventually.
Grace Duong: Yeah, definitely! So, I feel like some people might be afraid of taking that first step to take the leap, and so I’m wondering what ingredients do you have or do you think you have that allows you to take that leap over and over again?
✨ Taking small steps
Adam JK: You know, I think “leap” is such a big word. I don’t think I’m taking leaps. I think I’m taking steps. Now, it is scary to take a step in the dark, right? Because you don’t know what you might step into or you might fall off a ledge, But once you’ve taken the step, it’s like no take backs. And so sometimes for me, it’s just push yourself off a cliff, you know? Now I’m using hyperbolic language! But most of the time we’re not talking about cliffs. We’re not talking about jumping over a pit. We’re talking about like upload that post or send that email, right? I’m not a cliff diver but l can send an email. If I jump off a cliff and it doesn’t work, I’m dead at the bottom. If I send an email and it doesn’t work, I just never get a reply. It just doesn’t matter, and so I think. Yes, some people listening are going to be potentially embarking in much bigger things, right? The leap feels like a leap, but if we just think about the scale of the universe and the enormity of how big everything is? And then we think about how we want to make a book. The book is just not a big deal, it’s just not a big deal! So I think thinking about scale, thinking perspective, thinking really objectively, about our place in the universe can help us shrink those leaps into steps and to realize that even the biggest leap we’ve ever taken is truly just like one small step for mankind.
Grace Duong: I love that! I love that because I feel like people might get really intimidated by steps.
Adam JK: Of course! Everything is intimidating. Everything is intimidating until you do it, and then it’s just a thing you did. Sorry, I interrupted you. I just feel so passionately about this.
Grace Duong: Yeah. Yeah!
Adam JK: Yeah! Of course, it’s intimidating. You’re not weak for being scared. You’re not weak for being afraid of doing something you’ve never done before. That’s scary! It’s scary to do something for the first time. It really is. But then, it’s just a thing you’ve done, and now in my day to day you know, I do things that I once did for the first time all the time.
Grace Duong: So, I did want to talk about your Tarot deck that I have one of the self published versions here.
Adam JK: Oh, yeah!
Grace Duong: I also have your book which I got from you at Adobe MAX.
Adam JK: Back in that day!
Grace Duong: Yes, back in the day when people were mingling and talking about design.
Adam JK: Yeah.
Grace Duong: All of it is coming back now.
Adam JK: You and I were much younger creatives at earlier stages in our journeys and it’s cool to come back in this podcast. Which you have a podcast now! That’s fucking cool and we get to reconnect over that
Grace Duong: Yeah!
✨ Creating the Mystic Mondays Tarot Deck
Adam JK: and your Tarot deck blew the fuck up so congrats, and also, no surprise because it’s a very beautiful Tarot deck.
Grace Duong: Thank you! It’s been cool! I mean that’s the whole thing about creating your own Tarot deck. Which is also I think a leap, it was definitely leap for me because at the time I was really intimidated by Tarot. I had been receiving Tarot readings for many many years because it felt like a form of therapy for me. And it helped me get a different perspective on my life situations at the time. And for me making the cards was very much about learning what these cards meant. and after making it you’re like “Oh, that’s what that thing means?” You know, retrospectively, might kind of reflect and think of it in a different way.
✨ Creating the OK Tarot Deck
Grace Duong: So I was wondering what was your journey like creating your own Tarot deck and the inspiration behind it.
Adam JK: My approach to the OK Tarot deck, like a lot of my work, is really just about transforming pencil and paper, right? My whole thing. My whole ethos. This idea of things of what you make of them is a guiding principle for me where I am saying to myself “Okay, here’s what life handed you. What can you do with it?”Life handed me paper and pencil. Life handed me I worked at a photocopy shop. Life handed me I worked in an office where I could steal cute pastel-colored paper. The OK Tarot was an exercise in taking something that I had seen which was the Rider-Waite deck and using the limited skills I have You know, my simplistic illustration and my personal aesthetic taste which is very simple, I love like a one color line art. And just trying to put my spin on things. To me, I really believe that paper and pencil are magic. That’s a word that I would use. Or I would say it’s “magical” not “magic.” There’s something very magical about… I mean what are cards? This is so literal… I apologize in advance for whoever has to edit this because I’m formulating thoughts as I speak them. I really felt like Tarot cards are just paper. No matter what deck you have, it is 78 pieces of paper in a box, or in a bag, or with a rubber band. and everything else that Tarot brings to us is about internalizing an intuition and we’ve all agreed. “Hey, this means something!” we have all agreed. “Hey, I am going to put my faith into the meaning of this. I’m going to allow this to guide my intuition. And that’s very cool! That’s a lot of power that we are finding in this very humble material of paper. And I love that shit! I really do. I think that if paper can be so powerful then we as people can be so powerful. I love all the metaphors of art and creation, so I was like I will make a Tarot deck. I will take all the white dudes out. I will take all the religion out. Because I’m very religion averse having grown up in a religious community. You know, I just saw the Rider-Waite and I was like “What the fuck!?” How is this representing for— what in my mind— When I think of the Tarot community I’m thinking of people who are finding spirituality finding guidance and intuition from the universe outside of the traditional structures of organized religion. And then you hand me the Rider-Waite Tarot and it’s all white dudes and crosses and shit? It’s so catholic. It is shocking to me. So I was like “That’s all out! We’re pulling all that out!” And we’re pulling out all depictions of gender because I am actually a white man. So for me I look at the Rider-Waite Tarot and I’m like: Oh, that’s me with my hobo stick, and that’s me as a priest, and that’s me with a sword in my hand, but for everyone else, how is that supposed to represent for you? I was like, rather than create new depictions with new human figures I completely skipped that. I was like “No, no, no! We’re just not doing that at all.” and in some ways it makes the deck really fun and friendly and we can all find ourselves in it in some ways it’s a little more complicated because it’s a little bit less pictorial and it’s a little bit less in some cases, literal, but that was the fun exercise for me. It was just to try it, and just to do it, and just to see what happens. It’s just paper, right? If it’s bad then we can throw it out! If it’s bad then no one buys it. If it’s bad then it sits in a box. It just didn’t matter that it wasn’t gonna be perfect. So I wrote that on the box. I wrote on the very back of the OK Tarot box, it says: “It’s not perfect but it’s OK.” And that is true of the project itself. That is true of me and you as people. That’s true of life. And that’s what I wanted to do was I wanted to take paper and make something magical from it. And then let individual users do the rest.
Grace Duong: Yeah, I mean that’s really beautiful because there’s so much potential that can be held back from this idea of perfection, And what is perfection that someone else made up for us, you know?
✨ Spirituality vs religion in Tarot cards
Grace Duong: I felt the same way actually with the different Tarot cards that I had seen. I really couldn’t relate to any of them because, like you said, it was very religious and like not even a religion I had grown up with and also I’m a woman of color so I’m like looking at all these old white guys on these Tarot cards and I’m like I don’t see me in these. And I think that’s really nice that there’s all these different decks coming out now that are representations of all kinds of different people and beliefs which I don’t feel like Tarot is strictly religious. I think back in the day it probably had a tie to like the churches and what not. But nowadays it’s just more of another way to access your spirituality in whatever way you defined that for yourself.
Adam JK: Yeah, I mean that’s I think the key word is spirituality and not religion. And so for me that right that was the new jerk reaction is like this is a tool for spirituality why is it so full of religion how can separate the symbols of religion and not just like any religion but like an oppressive religion that is like famous for stamping out— Sorry, this controversial hot take. The catholic church is gonna cancel the OK Tarot deck. I think it’s the same conversation of like how could this represent for for everyone let’s find our own way in. and I think you and I were sort of like earlier in the current wave of artists Tarot decks. but it’s very cool seeing how many are out there and it’s very cool being part of something so much bigger than being part of a community.
✨ The Procss of Creating a Deck
Adam JK: And I would say that the number one the number one thing that I would say about the OK Tarot is that, at no point in the process did I stand up and say I’m a Tarot expert I know everything. I will be the first person to tell you that I don’t I don’t know anything about anything. And even I can make a Tarot deck! And so maybe if anyone who’s listening has ever thought about Hey! I want to make my own Tarot deck or I want to work on Tarot artwork. Maybe I’ll make one art work and then I’ll make two and then I wake up in three years and I’ve made 78 and I print it. Do it! Go for it. I had the idea for the OK Tarot deck in 2016 and I tweeted about it and I was like: “Do you guys think I should do this?” and people were like: “LOL! I don’t know. Like a shitty Tarot deck? I don’t know about that.” And one person who is very in the Tarot community and does a lot of readings for themselves and others said that based on the little— I doodled a few just to be like “I don’t know it could kind of look like this.” They were like based on what you doodled, if you had drawn those cards and I was doing a reading for you, I would tell you right now that doing this deck will change your life. And that spooked me actually and I was like, Okay! I don’t want to change my life yet. Things are pretty stable actually right now. So that’s part of the reason that I sat on that idea for 2 years. It was also laziness. It was laziness, it was fear, and it was not wanting to rock the boat. And then eventually I was looking around, and I was like, Okay, there’s like a new wave of artist decks happening. If I don’t do it now, I don’t want to be too late. I just knew like I knew I wanted to be part of something at that time. I was like, “Let’s go! Let’s just jump in.” and You know, the OK Tarot for me has been yet another lesson in my life of like it’s okay if you’re not an expert, it’s okay if you’re not the best artist, it’s okay if you don’t have the budget for fancy production details necessarily You know, it was just a little Kickstarter project. I don’t know, it really did change my life. It really did find a home within the Tarot community and it continues to reach new people. and after years of self publishing Penguin acquired the rights to publish it. And they were able to lower the price which is the best! The best thing for me as an artist is to make accessible work that people can easily afford. I’ve just been super happy lately. I adopted a dog two weeks ago and the joy is so palpable. It’s like new dog, Hanukkah, Christmas, New Year’s, family in town like— Just excited about new creative projects. Excited about not working. Excited about my 10 year anniversary with my husband. This month as well.
Grace Duong: Oh, my god!
✨ Trusting the Universe
Adam JK: There’s so much joy that I feel being joy bombed. And I’m like actually overwhelmed. I’m kind of like need someone to die just to temper it— Oh my god! Why did I say that?
Grace Duong: Well, that’s the thing about the human mind, right? Everything is going so well and then like thinking about worst case scenarios just to counteract that.
Adam JK: Yeah! I’m always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Why is that? Why can’t I just trust in the universe that maybe there’s not another shoe. Maybe I’m already wearing that other shoe? That’s how I took this step in the first place back to our original metaphors.
✨ Creating the It’s a Sign Oracle Deck
Grace Duong: So true. You also made It’s a Sign oracle deck recently, right?
Adam JK: I did.
Grace Duong: And it looks like it was a collaboration with your husband and internet strangers?
Adam JK: Yeah! So I in 2022 I had a mail art subscription club where like 800 people signed up to get quarterly packages from me not knowing what they would be. and in March I sent a little packet asking people to email me a photo of something you know like a cell phone, like something off their phone, of like something that they saw. where they felt compelled to take a picture because it felt like a sign from the universe in some way. Whatever it is, it was totally up to you. Just send me a photo and maybe a sentence or two about what, why, when. And I promised I wouldn’t share. I would not share the story. And I ended up getting quite a few photos, and a lot of stories, and some of them were upbeat, fun, and exciting. I was on a trip and I saw this bird and it meant a lot to me. A lot of the stories were really heavy. Really, really heavy. Like I had a miscarriage and I needed to go to the desert and be alone because I was processing and that was the most devastating experience of my life. And when I was there I saw this tree, and this tree reminded me that I am where I need to be. and what I was really struck by was how many stories were similar. You know? When I was really— And I read all the stories in one day. I saved them for like a quiet morning and I let them wash over me, and it hit me! We are all looking to create meaning in our own lives. We are all looking for signs. And we’re finding them. Actually, there are so many signs in the universe. Actually, there is beauty, and magic, and love, and light, and all— Whatever we want to call it, right? Whatever we want to call that amorphus thing that we may have faith in. It’s out there! So I took those images and I translated them into like an aesthetic language that’s a little bit more me. Where I reformatted the images and then I printed them out on colored sheets of paper. Which I then rephotograph— You know? I wanted to make these digital photos tangible. I wanted to say, Hey! This is real. We can hold this. This is paper, this is magic, here it is— And then I crafted them into these cards with short phrases based on the stories that I was told. And the result is this—I think deceptively simple oracle deck, right? Because you don’t know what these powerful stories are, and that’s really fun. It’s like when you’re drawing cards, they might really mean something to you, but each card is also imbued with a very strong real power from someone else’s life, who to you is a stranger and so this sign that was so powerful and meaningful to someone in the world now gets to serve as a sign in your life and it’s just like the overlapping power of it all is wild and then once again it’s just paper. I like it more than my Tarot deck! I’ll just say it. I’ll just say it out loud. I love the OK Tarot. I think it is really cool and special in a very unique way, but for me making a deck of signs out of other people’s signs that’s like Wow wow wow wow wow! And so I love it so much I did make it Tarot card size. That was the one point of connection where I was like, No, no, no! I like the tall cards. It feels really substantial and so going back to our conversation about the leap at the beginning, when I did the OK Tarot deck. That was so intimidating. Where do I get it printed? What size? How do I format the deck, and the cards, and the templates in the computer, Photoshop, or whatever? For this newer deck it was like, Oh, yeah! I’ve done that before. I know how to make a bar code. I know the size. I know how to format the box. So, that’s a great example of how being afraid on round 1, set me up to do round 2. and I like round 2 more, and I think it’s a more ambitious, emotional project. Where because some of the logistic stuff wasn’t as hard, I could dedicate more mental energy on the emotional, creative side. Man, I just love it! I LOVE paper and making things real. It is such a privilege to be able to facilitate some of that using my little graphic design skills.
✨ The Power of Collaborating vs Solo Projects
Grace Duong: So there seems to be a common thread between the power of storytelling through the cards, and I was wondering what the significance of collaborating versus doing solo projects mean to you?
Adam JK: So, I often work alone as a product of just the nature of my work is really confessional and emotional, I’m emoting these relatable human expressions and sometimes they’re quite dark, and because it’s all coming from me, a real person, I think it’s safe to grasp on to because you’re not the one saying that you want to die, I’m saying it. and you’re just double tapping so that’s not as scary. But on occasion, it’s really cool to say “Hey! I have tools, resources and skills.” I am acknowledging that though I am a huge dummy, I know how to use the software. And I know how to Google to find the right printer. And I know how to mail out five hundred packages. And I’m going to use all those skills to make something that includes other people. and so I don’t always have the chance to do that or I don’t always have the financial resources, or the time resources to do that? But with the It’s a Sign deck, by design, I want to make a project that incorporates all those elements. I think it would be really powerful for all of us and really special for me to work on. I’m going to make space to do this! And it was hard and it was a lot of work, but I love it and I’m glad that I was able to do it. And people whose cards—people whose images and stories were chosen to be in the deck, have sent me messages that were liked and I didn’t tell them. Oh, I skipped the best part! I didn’t tell anyone who was in and who wasn’t. So, people found out when they received the deck and flipped through, and people were like “Oh my god! That’s my dad’s flower.” or “Oh my god! that’s the time that my dog did that thing!” and even now I’ve gotten messages since that are just like “Thank you so much!” or “I teared up.” or “This really meant so much to me and I was able to share it with my sister who was also there.” Those little stories, the little connections that are a result of the things that we’re able to make and put out to the world are so cool. Right? Cause like when I die, it’s not going to be like “Here lies Adam JK. He made OK Tarot deck which sold 600 copies… blahbablah! It’s gonna be like—Well, I’ll probably be cremated but… The things that we leave behind are those human connections and the ways. The ways that people were able to bond.\NThe ways that our work helped facilitate those things. I will be nothing. I will be dust. But maybe the person who’s really difficult story became a card, and then they took that card, and they framed it in their office, and it’s yellowed with age, and then their daughter finds it in 30 years, and on the back they wrote a note. That stuff gives me goose bumps! I love that stuff! That’s what I want my legacy to be. That I think is the power of putting putting faith and belief into the sort of humble materials. That is just the special magical goop of being alive and ascribing meaning to things. It’s so cool!
Grace Duong: Do you assign meaning to things? Do you see things out in the world and you’re like “That means that to me.”
Adam JK: Yes, absolutely! I am that person. You know, that is That’s really my relationship to spirituality now. I grew up orthodox Jewish. So I was very entrenched in a religious environment, and raised with a certain type of faith that I didn’t question for a long time. For a long time I was like Oh yeah! God is this, and we can’t eat pigs, and this is what we do, and we pray this many times a day. As I got older I was able to make decisions for myself. And realized that, for me, spirituality is found in different environments, different things, different experiences, different people, and different relationships. And the older I get the more and more I believe in the transformational power of love. And love has, you know, there’s so many forms of love. The version of love that, for me, I connect with the most is It’s not being nice but being really kind and the different ways that kindness can exist, and my favorite way is just little gifts, the sentimentality of objects. A key chain can be a sign. A sticker on a water bottle can be a sign. These short phrases that might be sort of corny on your aunty’s fridge magnet. But then one day you’re having like a small nervous breakdown and you go to the fridge to eat something in case that helps, and instead you read the fridge magnet and you’re like Oh, this hits different today. To me, that’s incredible! And the person that made that fridge magnet? A beautiful soul. And so hopefully I made it, because I want the little credit in heaven for saving you on that day. I want to make the fridge magnet that stops you from killing yourself. That sounds so dark, so…
Grace Duong: It’s a ray of hope!
Adam JK: I’ve said it before—yeah, you know what? Because I have been absolutely short circuiting. and then just seen someone sent me a postcard and it’s a picture of downtown St. Louis and I’m like: Oh, there’s so much hope for me.I’ve never been to St. Louis yet. You know it’s like—these things are so dumb, but in the moment can be so powerful.
Grace Duong: And meaningful! Like whatever way you wanna— Someone can look at the same picture and think something else.
Adam JK: Yeah! Yeah! It’s all about how we feel. It’s all about what we intuit from an experience. And coming back to Tarot cards, that’s exactly what we’re talking about. Because a Tarot card and a post card are both card stock, right? It’s four-color printing on a hundred pound stock. Whatever! Hundred— Whatever! You know what I mean? It’s like ultimately it’s very similar. Ultimately, Harry Potter and the Bible are both printed on paper. We can’t use Harry Potter for anything anymore… Goddamn it! I just think that it’s not about the materials, it’s about the power that we give them, and the way that we let them guide our intuition.
Grace Duong: So at the core of your work I feel like there is a combination between self help and art. And I was wondering if there is a version of you that’s making it for a younger version of yourself?
Adam JK: Yeah, and a very recent younger version, right? I feel like I’m making work for like myself last week.
Buy the OK Tarot on Amazon *this is an affiliate link
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Adam JK: I often think about my work as sort of like a bread crumb trail for myself and others to find our way back. You know, in those moments when we start to lose our shit? In those moments when you’re so overwhelmed with emotion that logic goes out the window. Because we’re all smart, right? I’m not like a wellness guru genius. I’m not emotionally stable 24/7. But there are moments when I am, and those are the moments when I’m creating art, reminders, messages, or tokens that can help me get back to where I need to get back to.
✨ Creating Work for a Younger Version of Yourself
Adam JK: Right? It’s like when you save your game a few times before you go fight like a really difficult boss. It’s like “Okay, if I die I can just go back to my save file.” Maybe some of the work I’m putting out there is the save file that says: Hey, hey, hey! No, no, no! At this time you knew all these things, this was the emotional intelligence you had gained by that moment and and this is your new foundation. We are not going to rock bottom. We are now like ten flights of stairs up. You don’t have to start at the floor any more. And I love that I have been able to grow with people. That I’ve had readers and fans come along on the journey with me, from being a teenager on Tumbler, to being a 34 year old on Tumbler.
Grace Duong: Yeah!
Adam JK: I’m still on Tumbler.
Grace Duong: Tumbler is still a thing?
Adam JK: Tumblers a thing, baby!
Grace Duong: Alright!
Adam JK: I mean, the internet I feel is so toxic in so many ways that it really is about finding these smaller pockets of community, and just like cozying up in them because if you just try to rawdog all of Twitter, it’s gonna hurt. That’s a terri—I am so sorry for saying rawdog Twitter.
Grace Duong: It can be overwhelming for sure. It feels…
Adam JK: Twitter feels like going into like a crowded airport in like the second month of COVID and no one is wearing a mask. Twitter feels like April 2020 at like Six Flags.
Grace Duong: Yeah, yeah.
Adam JK: I don’t know what that means, I just mean that it’s overwhelming. It’s overwhelming, I don’t trust anybody, and I feel like I’m going to die. And so we need our small safe fun pockets of people that— Maybe we don’t need people to echo our sentiments back. We don’t need to be only amongst people who are exactly like us but people who maybe have a commonality? Who share some amount of interest. Who are passionate about whatever the crux of that community is. And that can be a really cool fun thing about the internet that I still love, that still helps me, that still helps—I don’t know.
Grace Duong: Yeah.
Adam JK: Tethered me to something bigger than myself in a fun community way.
Grace Duong: Definitely!
✨ Advice for your Younger Self
Grace Duong: If there were any advice that you would give to your younger self, what would it be?
Adam JK: Don’t kill yourself.
Grace Duong: Straight forward.
Adam JK: Yeah! Pretty on the nose. Hey, younger Adam! Don’t kill yourself. Because in fact a lot of really awesome things are coming, and love is real and it will change your entire life. And it starts not necessarily with romantic love but with the love that we have for ourselves, and our families, our chosen families, the people that we let into our lives, the love that we put into our work, the bread crumb trails that we put out into the world, that might eventually attract a partner for life, or a partner for a decade, or a partner for three years that helps us see ourself in a new way, helps us grow and transform into ways we are are meant to, or could be meant to, I started with the really scary negative, but I think what I’m actually trying to say is Hey, love is real! Love is actually real! It’s not just like a thing from songs. It’s a real thing and so if maybe you haven’t felt all kinds of it yet?or maybe if the kind of love that you were raised on is ringing false, you know? If you’re processing trauma. There’s so many reasons why we might not be able to internalize that feeling of love. But love is real, and it’s out there, and it will change you, and it will change everything. And belief in that, participating in it, magnifying it for others, sharing it with others, will change absolutely everything, will open so many doors, so many pathways.
Grace Duong: Do you feel like going through these darker moments have given you this optimism?
Adam JK: Yes! Oh my god, yes! I mean this is like what we were talking about at the beginning. Taking one step proves that taking one step won’t kill you. So then you can take a second step, and a third step, and a fourth step… Going through really dark moments, surviving really hard shit, proves to you that you can. And not just that you can and it was a fluke, but that like No! There was some sort of power in you that enabled you to get through this. And I will also say that in my case, going through a really particularly dark time in my early 20s, taught me a kind of empathy that I don’t know where else I would have gotten it from. Some people are more empathetic than others. I was already pretty empathetic but I learned a new form of empathy for people experiencing mental illness and mental health issues whether genetic, lifelong, temporary… Whatever! And it really informed my entire creative practice. It shifted the direction of what I was doing from sort of like graphic design in-house sort of employee. Making things to sell things. To someone who uses their tools, skills and new found empathy and trust in their own voice. And belief that they can get through a hard thing and find love and magnify love, informed my entire practice. The last 10 years has been books, and journals, and interactive stationary, reminders, and knick knacks, and uplifting, and affirming things filtered through my jaded sort of blunt voice that maybe connects with people who are who are currently in a dark place. Yeah, all all of that has come together to to help me build a life of trying to help other people. While really helping myself, my family, the people that I love. It is so cool to survive the hard thing, make art out of it, and then have that art generate enough income for yourself that you can care for your family. Holy shit, right? We were not told that you could live from art in fact we were told that you can’t. And so to prove that wrong, is really really really cool. For anyone who’s listening who has a sort of creative passion, we’re not talking about being a millionaire. I’m not a millionaire but I am happy.
Grace Duong: You can’t put a price on that.
✨ Taking the Leap and Moving
Grace Duong: So part of you taking the leap is you moved, right? From New York to Hawaii.
Adam JK: Yeah.
Grace Duong: Is that part of this happiness?
Adam JK: It is. I think in a very literal sense to leave a busy dirty city and move to place like Honolulu which is beautiful and there’s trees and nature. Really cool, really beautiful. The flip side of that is that I don’t like warm weather. I’m not a beach person. I’m from Canada and I love New York and I thought I would die there. I didn’t plan to move here but i fell in love with a person who’s from from Hawaii. So we moved home and take care of his family and— This—I mean, I didn’t see this for me. It wasn’t in the cards. Grace, It wasn’t there. I didn’t see it But I have made it through the really hard transition part and now I’m in the “I have trees in the yard and a dog” part. And so I miss being in a city like New York where everyone is also a psychopath? Right? I am a very special kind of Jewish brain.
I missed being in a place where I make sense. Here, it’s like “Is this man lost?” Are you are you trying to find your way back to your hotel and do you need help? But it’s cool. It’s cool to be in a new place and more so than just moving. I also I use the move as a moment to create meaningful change in my life, by changing up my systems of care, by changing my medications, by getting a new psychiatrist/therapist. At any point in time, in your own life, anyone’s life, we can say “Okay! Enough is enough. Let’s make some changes!” And I did that. I was like shit is so—like there’s so much upheaval anyway What’s a little bit more? At that point when you’ve already jumped off the cliff and you’re sort of like just in the air traveling down? 00:40:19:01 Let’s forget the cliff. When you’ve already taken a step, what’s another two steps? What’s another five steps? Maybe we sprint for a minute and and we go 20 steps? And maybe that’s okay. It’s new year, new me energy. I just cut off a foot and a half of hair growth that I have been growing all of the pandemic. And once again I’m saying “Let’s sprint! Let’s take a bunch of steps!” Once again, I am the Fool. I got my apple in the little sack over my shoulder. I got my ignorance is bliss hat on, and we are just going to go for it and see, We’re just going to see.
✨ Grace Leaps Off a Cliff, Literally
Grace Duong: You know that reminds me that when I was studying abroad we went cliff diving.
Adam JK: No!
Grace Duong: In Italy, yeah. And I didn’t really know how to swim. But I decided to jump off this cliff and I remember it being one of the most terrifying things I’ve ever done because it was like 3 stories high and my heart dropped. It was just like you literally walked off a cliff.
Adam JK: Yeah!
Grace Duong: And you’re supposed to get into this straight pencil position, which I did not. Because you just walk off a cliff and I just remember in the middle of the transition from dropping into the water, my heart just stopped and I was like “I’m never fucking doing this over again!” I hit the water not knowing if I would make it, because I wasn’t sure you know about my swimming skills. But I floated to the top, broke the surface, and I have the pictures to prove it. But the thing about that is just being scared and doing it anyway. And then once you make it on the other side you’re like
Adam JK: Yeah.
Grace Duong: I can do that. I can make this. I’m stronger than I think.
Adam JK: Yeah, how did you save that story for this long into the episode? That should have been the opening of this Oh, Adam said cliff dive? P.S. I’ve done that. That’s crazy. You are so brave. Holy shit!
Grace Duong: Thank you. I totally forgot actually until you said transition
Adam JK: I will never do that.
Grace Duong: from like when you jump off to when you hit the water. and by the way, I had a huge bruise on the back of my leg from the impact of hitting the water.
Adam JK: Yeah.
✨ Transitioning
Grace Duong: People won’t talk about the transition part, you know? Because it’s like probably not even that long, but it felt like forever.
Adam JK: Oh that’s wild, right? Yeah, we think about—maybe that’s like a whole other episode, right? We think about the jump. We think about the landing. But what about those seconds in between,and the knowledge gained, and the feelings felt in those seconds? Oh, that’s scared me—I’m like heebie-jeebies. I’m like you know when your arms just hurt and you feel like you can feel all of your blood pumping through your veins? That’s how I feel right now.
Grace Duong: Yeah. So this was wonderful and I’d love to wrap up our conversation with some rapid fire questions.
Adam JK: Okay!
✨ Adam’s Sun, Moon, Rising Signs
Grace Duong: Do you know what your sun, moon, rising is?
Adam JK: I am a Libra Sun, Aquarius Moon, and I forget my Rising. It might be Cancer, I forgot.
Grace Duong: I feel like that all makes sense.
Adam JK: Thank you.
Grace Duong: Do you have any favorite rituals?
Adam JK: I love to wake up and immediately look at my phone and answer work emails. I find that that’s really healthy.
Grace Duong: You really do that every day?
Adam JK: I do look at my phone more than I should. I just bought one of these—I don’t want to say the brand name, it’s not on add— I bought one of these meditation alarm clocks that’s for leaving your phone downstairs, and it costs like a hundred fucking dollars! I bought it off an Instagram ad and I haven’t set it up yet. It’s been in my office for three weeks. But in the new year, I’m going to be doing sleepy time meditations. and I’m not going to look up my phone and I’m going to be so healthy and physically fit. And I’m not going to use food or weed as coping mechanisms anymore, and I’m also going to become really good at drawing and my whole life’s gonna change.
✨ Adam’s Current Creative Rituals
Grace Duong: Do you have rituals when you get into like your creative space like writing or anything like that?
Adam JK: Well, I think this year the ritual has been like hit the bong and then like… The rituals haven’t been healthy they’ve just been super fun… I think that a lot of the times it’s like you got to feel it first? For me, my creative work is not really about execution as much as concept. So there’s a lot of thinking. I’m always—back in my mind I’m just always thinking, thinking, thinking. and then when there’s a strong emotion that starts to settle into some sort of phrase or something more graspable, then it’s like “Okay, well what could that be?” and I’m looking beyond my webcam right now. at the wall, and sometimes it’s a key chain, and sometimes it’s a ribbon, and sometimes it’s a Christmas ornament, and sometimes it’s just like a note that I wrote to myself, and then sometimes it’s a sticker, sometimes it’s an an enamel pin, I don’t always—I don’t always know. I think graphic design is all about what’s the end product, work backwards, build out your parameters. But with art it’s so much more about like what do you actually want to say, right? What not how are you communicating, but what are you communicating. So the process for me is really just think and feel. And sometimes that’s bad for business because you haven’t made anything in a while, but you also don’t want to make garbage, so give yourself time and space to think and feel. And sometimes that looks like taking a walk, sometimes that looks like watching like a really bad reality TV show, or just doing something totally opposite from work. I wish I had like a clear good answer. I wish I was like, Yes, I do my morning pages and then I have a cup of coffee, and then I walk my dog, and then I come home, and I sharpened my pencil then I rub my lucky stone—But, no. I don’t have that. I don’t even have a lucky stone.
Grace Duong: It’s not very realistic, right?
Adam JK: For some people maybe it is.
Grace Duong: I mean, yeah! That’s true. Maybe.
Adam JK: It hasn’t been for me, and I will say that I’m relatively successful at what I do, so perhaps we don’t need to be evolved beings in order to make art? It might help, but if you’re listening, and you’re like: I’m not evolved! I’m a dumdum dummy dumb! That’s okay too. It’s allowed. You’re still allowed to make art.
✨ Grace Gives Adam a Tarot Reading
Grace Duong: Alright! So would you like to end our conversation by pulling some cards?
Adam JK: Yes!
Grace Duong: Okay, do you have any questions or intention?
Adam JK: Yeah! I mean we’re about to enter the new year, so I I would love— I don’t know… is there— do the cards have something — You know, I think I know what I want and then I’m wrong? I wonder if we might draw a card that helps give me some sense of of guidance, or like a watch out, or like something to be aware of, something that you might not have considered yet. As you step forward into the new year and really try to make these meaningful life changes about as far as relationships and health and that sort of thing.
Grace Duong: Yeah, totally! So I’m shuffling the cards.
Adam JK: Yes! Cards, will I be healthy? Will I stop stress eating? Cards, please? You’re gonna somehow draw the weed and pizza card that doesn’t exist. The deck’s gonna be like “Fuck you, bitch!”
Grace Duong: Amazing!
Adam JK: And while you’re drawing the cards, I’m going to squish my face like this in case the video footage is ever used.
Grace Duong: Have you been waiting on something to wrap up for you to start something else?Like any decisions that you wanted to make?
Adam JK: I think I am just waiting for the holiday season to be through.
Grace Duong: Yeah! So I’m getting the Hanged Woman reversed and that’s why I asked that because usually there’s some sort of delay or sense of sacrifice, but since it’s reversed, it’s kind of like those things that we’re holding you back it’s kind of like a green light to go ahead and maybe do those things that you’ve been waiting on. The Queen of Pentacles is a very nurturing and has a motherly energy and so… I feel like from what you were talking about earlier with these new routines that you’re having for yourself like having a trainer and really caring for your health, well being and fitness? That’s like another way of—I mean, it’s obviously a way of caring for yourself but like really acting as that maternal figure, you know, that’s like really caring for yourself on the level of like making sure that your needs are met and not in a way— making sure you’re getting your needs met for your best interest and not for anyone else’s agenda or anything like. Nine of Wands reversed. It can indicate you’re like you’re almost at the end of something? So the end of a transition. You know, about to start at the end of a new chapter kind of thing. I think that really speaks to like you know you were talking about this transition from your move and getting used to being in Hawaii and like It’s almost like an acceptance into this passage of new life, and creating the passage way for you to be that nurturing presence for yourself and you’re not relying on other people to be that for you.
Adam JK: Cool! Yeah, and there are some things that we didn’t talk about in this episode that I think these cards are really reflecting and affirming. So, yeah! That’s cool.
✨ Clearing Space to Manifest
Grace Duong: Like what?
Adam JK: How much time do we have? I’m ending my business. I’m closing my business.
Grace Duong: Oh my god! I didn’t know that?!
Adam JK: I’m like stopping my brand.vI’m shutting down my e-commerce and I’m just like taking stuff off my plate, so I can focus on myself being healthy and I’m happy.
Grace Duong: I love that for you.
Adam JK: So I feel like that’s what we’re talking about here. I am shedding some of the shackles that I created for myself. I’m letting go of some of the ego that I placed in the work stuff. and I’m saying “No, no, no!” we need to be healthy or we will suffer and have physical pain for for decades to come. So I’m being—yeah, I’m really looking up for my truest needs in the most literal sort of immediate sense. And so this does really feel like the end of one thing and the start of the next.
Grace Duong: Yeah! And when I say I love that for you— I mean, I love that you’re making these decisions for yourself in your best interest.
Adam JK: Yeah.
Grace Duong: Not like tying it to something you think you have to do.
Adam JK: Totally! I mean, it is a real privilege and a luxury to say: Hey! I do this thing that makes money that I use to live. But I am in a position to say, Hey, you know what? You worked so hard that you can now afford to take some of that work off your plate and work a little bit less in the service of really caring for your physical health, your mental health, I’m someone who gets so much of their satisfaction from working really hard, and now I’m saying “Hey, can we unlearn that?” and can we really focus on these things that matter for health and happiness long term. To go from someone who was like:Well, I’m probably not going to live very long anyway so let me just like burn, burn, burn, grind, grind, grind! to be like, oh, fuck! I got to live until like 80 or something. I am not even at the half-way point. How instead do I set myself up for a long term health. That’s—yeah, that’s where I’m at. So I love it too and I want it so bad! I want to really do and accomplish this thing and so Some of us have a dream and we keep it a secret because we’re afraid people might think it’s dumb, or we’re afraid that we might jinx it, or were afraid that we might fail right away, and everyone will know we failed because we said we wanted to do it. I’m talking! I’m talking about the dream. I’m making it not a secret and I’m allowing myself the grace to maybe fail, or fuck up along the way, or fall off the wagon and get back on, but I’m not keeping it a secret because accountability to ourselves and with loved ones is super helpful. Yeah, I’m trying to make things real. I think I used to define the word manifest wrong. You know, I used to think about manifesting as like: Oh, yeah! You just want something really bad and then it can materialize. Ands now I’m like No, no! Manifesting is like creating space, it’s like clearing space, it’s like welcoming things in, it’s taking steps, it’s seeing the door open and walking through that door before it has a chance to close again. It is more proactive than I thought… and so I’m in there.
Grace Duong: Yeah! It’s also like you’re attracting new opportunities to you by clearing the space.
Adam JK: Yeah! You’re right! If there’s no space— If you don’t listen to your voice mails, you will run out of voice mails, right?
Grace Duong: I don’t look into my voice mails.
Adam JK: and then people call you but your inbox is full.
Grace Duong: My entire inbox is full.
Adam JK: Yeah, empty your inbox so that you can get new voice mails because the universe is calling.
Grace Duong: That is super exciting.
Adam JK: The universe is not going to call more than two or three times per year so got to be ready. Better yet, just pick up the phone when it rings.
Grace Duong: They’ll send you very disruptive text message if you’re not listening to the messages. Yeah! So thank you so much for hopping on and sharing.
Adam JK: Thanks for having me on this podcast.
Grace Duong: Yeah, you’re my very first guest, so you know!
Adam JK: It only gets better from here listeners, don’t forget to like and subscribe. If you like what you’ve heard, please give Grace’s podcast 5 stars on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your— Sorry, I know you probably want to say that better.
Grace Duong: You know what? You need to be my mascot.
Adam JK: I am willing to put on a goofy costume and just cheer people on. I do really believe in the potential of everyone and everything and if there’s one thing you take away from me on this episode it’s If I can do this, you can do this! If I can let go of fear, you can let go of fear! and you might just be really really really really surprised in what the universe has in store for you. Because I have been completely shocked and I’m just so grateful.
Grace Duong: Yeah, so much gratitude, so much knowledge. I love that you’re able to share your wisdom in like a way that everyone can get. Everyone knows what it feels like to have those dark moments, But being able to transform those dark moments into moments of inspiration that can help heal yourself, versions of yourself, but also the people around you. It’s really a ripple effect and I feel like you know your work speaks to so many people because they’ve been there before And they’re going through those moments that you’ve been through too. So it’s really a gift that you’re sharing with us. And so I just really want to acknowledge you in your light and everything that you’re doing and that I’m really excited for you, and your next adventure, your next Fool moment. It’s like cycles of change and inspiration as we keep evolving and growing. Thank you so much, Adam.
Adam JK: Thank you! I can’t wait to see who’s on your next episode. I guess I’ll have to like and subscribe to find out?
Grace Duong: Yes, please do! Okay, thank you so much and chat soon.
Adam JK: Bye!
Grace Duong: Bye!
Leave a Podcast Review 💖
Thanks so much for tuning in to today’s GRACED podcast episode! What were some of your biggest takeaways? I want to hear what you think! Leave a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or a YouTube comment. I read them all! Thank you 💖
✨ ENDTRO + GIVEAWAY DETAILS
Thanks so much for tuning in to today’s podcast episode with AdamJK!
So grateful for Adam’s raw honesty, humor, and giving us a glimpse into this new beginning!
Take this episode as an invitation to connect with the Fool card and see if you can activate that spontaneous side of you that is willing to take risks, even if you are uncertain of what’s on the other side. Make sure to tell us your experience by writing into the show or leaving a voice message on Spotify!
And now, we’re going to wrap up with the giveaway details I promised you at the beginning of the podcast.
To enter the giveaway, you must leave a podcast review, screenshot your review, and email it to hi@graceduong.com. If you want additional entries, you can follow us on social media and get the complete rules on Instagram over @mysticmondays and @grace.duong.
Also, each follow, like, and comment on Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, and TikTok platform will be another entry for you to win the OK Tarot deck! We will be picking winners on Monday, April 24th at 11:59PM Eastern Time.
Since the GRACED podcast is completely new, I so appreciate your support in sharing the episodes, liking the episodes, and subscribing to the podcast.
Sending you so much GRACE today and everyday. Bye now!