Check out the latest GRACED Podcast Episode 💖

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00:00:00 Episode Preview 00:00:21 Opening 00:00:57 Introduction 00:03:16 Interview Begins with Benebell Wen 00:04:08 Integrating Esoteric Wisdom 00:05:24 Cultural Currents and the Wheel 00:07:18 Accepting Life’s Rhythms 00:09:06 Letting Go of Control 00:10:40 Understanding Fate and Luck 00:14:14 Karma and Self-Discovery 00:17:07 Karma’s Gifts Across Lifetimes 00:19:46 Embracing Individuality Amid Tradition 00:23:26 Connecting with Spiritual Allies 00:26:44 Bridging Cultures and Traditions 00:29:40 Discovering True Self in Change 00:30:31 AD – Download the Mystic Mondays App 00:30:48 Predicting Patterns, Not the Future 00:33:47 What’s Your Sun, Moon, and Rising Signs? 00:35:17 What Are Your Favorite Rituals? 00:36:37 The Balance of Challenge and Growth 00:40:24 The Double-Edged Sword of Identity 00:44:46 Creation of the Spirit Keeper’s Tarot 00:47:26 Synchronicity in Tarot Creation 00:49:10 Butterflies, Dragonflies, and Spiritual Communication 00:50:36 Divine Guidance in Uncertain Times 00:54:10 What is Fear Mongering? 00:56:07 One Card Collective Reading 01:00:58 Closing Statements 01:01:57 End of Episode – Make Sure to Leave a Podcast Review! 01:02:41 End Screen

Welcome to the GRACED Podcast! A space for everyday magic for your everyday life. We do this through rituals, aligning yourself to your soul’s purpose, and creating Alchemy to heal our mind, body, and spirits so that you can bring in more love and joy, manifest your desires, and believe in your dreams. Listen and watch over at and on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Instagram, TikTok and all the places you can find me on social media. Now let’s dive into today’s episode.

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Full Transcript

💖 Introduction

Grace: Welcome to The GRACED Podcast, a space where we talk about everyday magic for your everyday life.

Today’s guest is Benebell Wen, a published author of three books, I Ching, the Oracle, The Tao of Craft, and The Holistic Tarot. She’s also a self published creator of her own tarot deck, The Spirit Keeper’s Tarot, and a professional lawyer.

Benebell and I first connected way back when I first started Mystic Mondays, launching the Kickstarter for the very first Tarot deck, and I actually sent her one of my handmade decks of the first 22 major Arcana cards which she highlighted on her blog.

In this conversation, Benebell and I talk about the themes of the Wheel of Fortune Tarot card, the concepts of change and fate, as well as the power of embracing challenges. Because if you know the Wheel of Fortune, you’ll know that most of the time control is out of our hands. But if we’re able to let go of control and focus on what we can control, you may find that the magic is in the co creation and the balance between how much We do, but also how much serendipity is at play and available to us if we are open to the synchronicities.

And if you’d like to dive deeper in getting to know yourself through the tarot cards, I highly recommend checking out the tarot birth card calculator on the Mystic Mondays website. We also have in depth tarot birth card reports that you can check out to get more insights about your life patterns, life themes, and more inside this Tarot Birth Card Report. Check it out over at

The other thing I’d love to highlight is that you can shop the Wheel of Fortune Tarot Card Collection on, where we have t shirts, candles, prints, and other merch highlighting your favorite Mystic Mondays cards.

And we are also doing a giveaway of Benebell’s book, the Holistic Tarot, on YouTube and Instagram. More details on how to enter this giveaway in the show notes and on the @grace.duong and @mysticmondays instagrams.

Now let’s dive into this episode.

✨ Interview Begins with Benebell Wen

Grace: Hi Benebell, welcome to the podcast.

Benebell: Hi Grace, I’m very glad to be here. Nice to meet you.

Grace: Nice to meet you too, although I am familiar with your work. I actually came across you years ago when I was starting on my own tarot journey, had created some handmade cards of the Mystic Mondays Tarot, and you luckily agreed to review them.

I believe they were the Major Arcana first 22 cards and I think that was just like a really affirming moment that I was on my way and on my path and also I think as another Asian in this space, in the mysticism and esoteric world, something that I’ve noticed about what you do is you combine Eastern philosophy with Western, and I think with the Asian American identity, I think that’s really important.

✨ Integrating Esoteric Wisdom

Grace: So I would love for you to talk about your journey and how you started learning esoteric systems and how you integrate it into your life.

Benebell: Yeah, absolutely. I did also want to say I was very honored that you reached out to me with that handmade Majors only deck. I thought it was beautiful. So thank you very much.

I really loved that opportunity. In terms of mixing the two, I guess it’s more a reconciliation of how I was when I was younger. I think when I grew up in upstate New York in a very small town called Bastille, New York, where you didn’t see many Asian faces, and I grew up in a household steeped in Taoist mysticism and esoteric Buddhism, and so I was always interested in the the other side the intangible and the unseen and the spirit worlds.

But I couldn’t, I felt like I couldn’t use the Asian vocabulary that I had to talk about the spirit world. And so I naturally gravitated toward Western occultism. And then at some point, when you grow up and you mature and you learn to love yourself, I decided to find a way to reconcile the two sides of my culture, because If you are born and raised in the United States, you really can’t say you’re fully Eastern, but you’re not fully Western because of how we look.

And so finding a way to navigate that middle path was something that was really important to me and had to be integrated into my personal spirituality.

✨ Cultural Currents and the Wheel

Grace: Yeah, I think that’s really beautiful to combine these different aspects of ourselves. And I know today we are talking about the themes of the Wheel of Fortune And I find that when the Wheel of Fortune is present in my life, it’s also one of my tarot birth cards, it brings a constant change that can be unwielding.

And I’m wondering for you on your journey, how has the Wheel of Fortune been present in your life in finding yourself through these esoteric systems of whether it’s your Eastern philosophy and background or Western upbringing, and I would say cultural and societal conditioning as well.

Benebell: I love that the Wheel of Fortune in the classic Mars Day, like it was a medieval meme.

Rota Fortunae, right? Like the Wheel of Fortune was like one of the earliest memes in history. And so I love that it’s a cliche, but then it’s in this tarot deck. And it represents the capricious nature fate and fortune are so fickle. Once you are up, the next minute you’re down, and then once you’re down, your fortune goes back up. And I think that wheel resonates with a lot of people.

In terms of how it’s been in my life, I really love The Rider Waite Smith Wheel of Fortune, where it’s the Ezekiel’s Wheel, that Waite was inspired by from Eliphas Levi. And so that idea of 4 plus 3 plus 2 plus 1, these are the esoteric principles that are the pillars of the tarot.

So it’s so interesting that of all the cards in the majors, you have this pivotal midpoint, which is Key 10, and that is the Wheel of Fortune. And so there is this idea that to truly understand life, you have to understand the Wheel of Fortune card. And so I think that’s just one of those great cards in the Tarot to meditate on and to self reflect on.

I think that’s how it’s been in my life. You know, it’s always been something that is an anchor point for me to reflect on my fate.

Accepting Life’s Rhythms

Grace: Yeah. And I feel like through learning of yourself, because there’s a certain balance with that midpoint of coming to, whether it’s balancing, like, let’s say elements, because I know the different elements are present in the Wheel of Fortune. So fire, air, earth, water.

There’s also the element of spirit if you want to integrate that aspect into it. And I think sometimes we can find ourselves out of balance, whether it’s let’s say Ayurveda systems where maybe you have too much fire in your system, you can balance it out with some water. But I’m wondering if anyone feels out of balance and wanting to integrate maybe an acceptance that balance is ever shifting and changing.

What would you say to them?

Benebell: Wow, I wish I knew the answer to that question. I think for me, the best answer I can give is to not feel the need to find balance, because I find that if I’m obsessed with bringing myself back to balance, I can’t. It seems balance is elusive when you’re focused on searching for it.

Rather than try to get balance as that being your focal point, lean in to what’s happening in your life and then it’ll naturally course correct. For example, you know how when it’s raining and you’re driving and your car hydroplanes, the instinct is to try to course correct very forcefully with the wheel, but that will actually cause you to go out of balance even more.

And the way to navigate hydroplaning in the rain is to almost Go follow where the wheels want to go, and then slowly it’ll course correct itself, and that’s the way to evade danger. So I think leaning into whatever challenges are happening at the time is the best way to find balance.

Grace: Yeah, I love that. That’s a really great analogy, because I feel like there’s so many things out of our control that we want to control. There’s so many things that we see on the news, on social media, and I feel like these external things are, one, reflections of how we might be feeling internally, and that could be I think a way we can shift the wheel is also shifting how we see ourselves and what’s going on in our internal system.

But, on the other hand, I love that you mentioned focus, because I think that is something about this Wheel of Fortune card is that there’s a certain concentration point where you can’t focus on the chaos, because there’s just too many things going on at the same time, and part of that too, I think, what I heard, is surrendering your control in the moment, because you can’t really, like, control the car in the moment, because it just makes it worse.

Benebell: Yeah, that is absolutely the essence of the Wheel of Fortune card in tarot. I think it’s the idea of being able to accept that capricious nature of fate and fortune. And when you can accept that, the other aspect of the card meaning is that actually good luck will come. So when it shows up in a card reading, if you do forecasting and predictions, usually, especially in the classical texts, it’s interpreted as a good omen.

It’s a positive sign that you’re, there is going to be a turn in your favor. So I think if you can accept that, Lady Luck is fickle, then she will bless you with good luck. I think that’s sort of the crux of the Wheel of Fortune.

✨ Understanding Fate and Luck

Grace: Yeah, and I feel like with good luck, like, good luck can be fickle as well, because you might not be able to hold the energy of luck, and so that might be part of the shifting tides of the Wheel of Fortune, of having a rollercoaster experience of maybe one moment you’re at top and The other moment you’re on the bottom, and I feel like with the acceptance of things are constantly changing, whether you like it or not, can bring people to a certain sense of peace.

And we were talking about the Omega Institute earlier. I was there for a past life regression training, and you were there for a tarot conference, and we just missed each other, it seems. We were both there in July, but that is funny because that’s kind of like almost like a fated moment, you know?

So how would you define fate and you mentioned luck?

I think sometimes with fate, luck, good fortune, destiny, people might feel really bogged down by these definitions and almost feel like a weightedness versus like a lightness of Being able to shift into these cycles of change.

Benebell: I think how we define fate is part of how we explore our own philosophy of life.

So one person cannot answer that question for another. And so for me, how I answer the question for myself, I am going to lean into my religion. And so I do see karma and fate being inextricably tied to each other. And I I love that you went to a past life regression seminar because I absolutely believe in past lives.

And so I think what happened in past lives and also karma isn’t necessarily just what’s in your control. I think that’s one thing the West gets wrong. Karma is this idea of all the many different palpitations happening at the synchronistic moment of your existence that go into affecting what happens.

You know, so for example, if there’s an earthquake and you lose everything, it’s not Bad Karma in that you did something wrong in the past life. I don’t think it’s that straightforward or simple. I think it’s very complex. You can even say you were at the wrong place at the wrong time in many different lifetimes or different whatever, and then because of that, this happens.

That is also Karma. And when I think of fate, I think of my karma, collective karma, ancestral karma, social karma, cultural society, civilizational karma that goes into affecting what happens to me as an individual. And that is fate. It feels capricious because it’s so big, there’s no way I can control how big that energy is. So it can feel like I don’t have control, but I think my religion would say that if you are able to harness divine, then if you harness the divine in some different ritualistic ways, then you are able to navigate the capricious nature of fate in a way that’s slightly more, well, graceful.

Grace: Yeah.

Wow. So many amazing nuggets. What is your religion?

Benebell: I would say I grew up Buddhist, Mahayana Buddhist, but what’s so fascinating about how Buddhism is actually practiced by a lot of Asians is that it’s so much mixed in, at least for East Asians, with esoteric, with Taoism and Taoist mysticism. And in other parts of Asia, it’s going to, you’re going to find a lot of Buddhist countries in Asia They mix it with their indigenous folk practices, indigenous folk magical practices.

And for example, in, in Japan, you have Shinto and Buddhism where it’s very tied together. So for me, it’s Buddhism and Taoism.

✨ Karma and Self-Discovery

Grace: And I love that you mentioned karma, because I do feel like karma is very tied into the themes of the Wheel of Fortune. And I agree that there can be like a stigma of like, oh, if I do this, it equals an action That equates to this wrongdoing that I did or this good deed that I did for either myself or someone else and yeah, I agree that’s very complex.

It’s, I feel like a seed or many seeds planted by people in power to keep people in control because they’re constantly feeling Guilty about doing something morally wrong when sometimes it can be the best thing for you. And I think that’s a case by case basis meaning, I think, actions of freedom within oneself.

And I think through learning our karma, through getting through the things, whether it’s surrendering to the moment or facing our fears and being able to withstand the tides of change. I think we can come to our true selves. But sometimes we do have to get through that chunk of karma. And it sounds like you’ve done some facing of your own karma.

You know, what did that look like for you? And if you’re willing to share, what do you feel like your karma is?

Benebell: Oh, huh, big questions. Yeah, you don’t want to know, no light hitting questions today, huh?

Grace: I asked the deep questions here.

Benebell: No, I love it though. I really love it. I think my karma is clearly ordinary. I don’t feel like treating myself, I think exceptionalism.

can be dangerous. And so one of the things that I try very hard to do is to see what I experience. Lots of other people experience it. And by normalizing my experiences, I don’t feel particularly tragic or particularly extraordinary. And I think that gives me a lot of balance and it also keeps you connected and grounded to the people around you.

It’s a lot easier to relate to people when you don’t feel Some bizarre sense of individualized exceptionalism or tragedy. And so I don’t know what else to say to that. I think in terms of my karma, Oh, I love astrology. I am into Hellenistic astrology and Bazi, which is a form of Chinese four pillars of destiny casting.

And so I find that when you learn both Eastern and Western forms of astrology, There’s so much crossover between the two, and even how they interpret Jupiter, how they interpret Mars and Mercury, although some of the elements is a little bit different, when you get down to the essential nature of what we think these planets implications are in our individual lives, they are very much the same.

And so that universality tells me there must be some greater truth to be explored here. And so a lot of my work with my own karma and exploring my fate and destiny is to look at personal astrology.

✨ Karma’s Gifts Across Lifetimes

Grace: Yeah, yeah, I love astrology. It’s a really amazing tool like tarot and all the esoteric systems to really get to know yourself.

And I think ultimately it’s about unlocking the keys to finding your truth and seeking what feels true for you because I think a lot of adult life is just unlearning. Like unlearning. Conditioning and learning the things that authority figures have told you, whether it’s guardians, parents, teachers, whatnot, and just come to your own truth and become your own authority.

And, I think through the shifts of time where you can learn. You know, be in that state of not necessarily relying on anyone else for survival, you can then come into a place of your own truth, but it never ends, I think the journey never ends, and that’s part of the Wheel of Fortune as well, it’s just like, if you learn something, you’re shifted to another level of learning a new thing, and it just keeps constantly going, and it can go beyond lifetimes, so something that I think You know, when you’re mentioning karma and I’m observing your work through your blog, which has so much, a wealth of information.

And I think something that you brought with you into this lifetime is obviously a talent and passion for sharing mystical insights and combining the Eastern and Western together, which I think is unique. You know, I think in this world, there aren’t a lot of resources about that. So I think that’s also another way to look at karma instead of It being like this terrible bad thing that you’re carrying around.

It could also be the gifts of past lifetimes, future lifetimes if you kind of want to get into the multiverse of karma. And I think that’s again a complex thing to comprehend because it’s not necessarily linear, like these gifts that we have. But I’m sure in this lifetime, you’ve cultivated a gift for writing, a gift for speaking about this, a gift for wanting to share this knowledge with other people.

Benebell: That’s a great point. I think we often, when we say karma, immediately we think to the past. We, and then how that impacts the present. We never really, Take the moment to acknowledge that karma is also sowing seeds for the future. And it’s not just the karma for yourself, but it’s what are you doing to contribute to collective karma?

What are you doing to contribute to the karma of your people, to put it in a kind of a goofy way? But I think that’s also a very, especially maybe because of my cultural background, I do have a stronger sense of collectivism. And so having, bearing a strong sense of social and moral responsibility to contribute to the positivity of your people.

Your culture’s collective karma is something that matters a lot to me.

✨ Embracing Individuality Amid Tradition

Grace: Yeah, absolutely. I feel the same way having grown up in a Cantonese Chinese household of just being aware of the family. But if you integrate astrology and whatnot, my sun sign, is Aries, and so I think part of my path in this life is to learn my individuality and if you combine that with Tarot Birth Cards and Numerology and Life Path 1, Aries, Tarot Birth Cards are the Magician, Wheel of Fortune, And the Sun.

So I think a lot of that you kind of like step into. So as you learn these things about yourself, you kind of, I guess, grow and flourish in that way. I’m still in it, by the way. Like, there’s no ending to it. A foreseeable future kind of thing. But I think something that I came into this life is to heal generational trauma.

And I think a lot of that is Really, really about coming into yourself and finding your truth and your purpose despite other people’s expectations and for me, and I think for a lot of people, finding your voice can be really difficult when you have a lot of expectations of how you should be and behave in this world I would say mysticism is, like, not an everyday thing.

Not everybody understands it or believes it or whatnot. And did you ever experience any of that in your path and journey? And what drew you towards this world even more so?

Benebell: I think I lucked out at these Among Asians, in a way, because it wasn’t on me, the first generation in ABC, to heal generational trauma.

I really felt like my mom healed generational trauma for us, because a lot of Family cycles that I knew were happening in my mom’s side and my father’s side, she stopped it and she gatekeeped in a way in terms of blocking some of the generational trauma on my paternal side from seeping into her children.

So I would say she’s the one who did that work for me, so I didn’t have to, and I was free to really explore individuality here in the States because of what my mom did for me. So I think in that sense, it’s different. Most ABCs, Asian, American born Chinese. are the ones who have the responsibility of healing that generational trauma.

So I didn’t have to and I think that really freed me in a lot of ways. What was the other part of your question? I think there was something else I really wanted to say because I thought it was such an important question.

✨ Connecting with Spiritual Allies

Grace: What drew you to the world of mysticism? And I read in your bio that on your mom’s side, where your mother’s side comes from in Taiwan it’s the heartland of mysticism, is that right?

Benebell: That’s what I would say, yeah, Tainan is very much, I mean like when you go there, like if you’re a skeptic or you’re an atheist, you’re going to have a really colorful time in places like Tainan and that part of Taiwan, because they have a lot of forms of shamanism, psychics, and mediums. It’s just a really Colorful place to thrive in.

And so my mom came from that world. My grandfather used to sell food talismans. He was into different forms of traditional Chinese medicine without having formalized training in traditional Chinese medicine. So I think in Asia, if you have formalized training in TCM, you’re taken more seriously. But if you’re like folksy about it, where you don’t have training and you’re not educated, but still practicing TCM, it’s like witchcraft.

And so that has always been kind of a legacy that I inherited, and so mysticism was always something that was part of my life. In fact, I think I spent most of my life fighting it. And if anything, it was coming to peace and coming to terms with that aspect of my own inheritance.

Grace: That’s so beautiful. And I know in the traditional Rider Waite card, there are certain figures in the Wheel of Fortune, like the Sphinx.

And I kind of feel like with the Wheel of Fortune as well, it kind of means you’re not alone. You know, there’s other beings, whether it can be guides, ancestors, your spiritual team, whatnot, your council, whatever you’d like to call them, and on your path, because it does feel and sound like it’s part of your lineage to explore this mysticism, did you find that you know, anyone was reaching out to you, whether it was an ancestor or a guide that you like to connect to.

Benebell: Yeah, absolutely. But to your point about the Wheel of Fortune Paul Christian talked about how the Sphinx is the most important focal point in the Wheel of Fortune card. And then you have the Typhon. And then, actually, I think in Pictorial Key, Waite said that the meaning of the card is divine intervention.

So the whole implication of divine intervention is that there is spirit presence in your life. That’s right. So I think my whole life I’ve always felt there was a presence and it’s always been a very benevolent presence in my life. I think it took a while for me to figure out who that was. One, I think it’s personally invoked, Kuan Yin and the Amitabha Buddha, Kuan Yin and Amitabha.

And I think that is more personally invoked because my mom trained the three of us, my, me and my two sisters, to, invoke through mantra. We did a lot of mantra work growing up, to the point where if I’m in a place where I’m scared, or I’m anxious, or even nervous, immediately, like, my brain kind of goes into immediate auto drive of reciting the mantra for Kuan Yin.

And so that’s such a part of my life that I think I’ve invoked that presence into my life, just because it’s been Part of me for over 40 years. And so that’s been my life. I feel that after the passing of my maternal grandmother, I felt her presence very much close by. And so I felt like she guided me as well.

My, I never met my maternal grandfather. He died before I was even born. So I don’t have a sentimental Connection to him. So it’s more of a cerebral high concept connection when you’ve never met somebody, right? And so I feel like my maternal grandfather is always present as well, especially after I started actively pursuing the study of Taoist mysticism in a way that can be presented to the Western to the English speaking world.

I felt that presence of ancestor a lot stronger, especially after I got into Thank you. Blending that Eastern esotericism with my Western upbringing.

Grace: Yeah, what is the mantra that you use for calling Kuan Yin?

Benebell: Hmm, Namo Di Zhang Wang Pu Sa

Grace: and what does that translate to?

Benebell: A lot of people translate Namu as like an homage or like, hail to.

So a lot of you said hail so and right? You see that a lot in Western mantra indications. Hail Hecate, right? Hail in Namo is kind of similar in that regard, but Namo is the invocation. And in a lot of Buddhist mantras, you’ll start with, for example, Di Zhang Wang Pu Sa. The mantra for that would be Namo Di Zhang Wang Pu Sa.

And the Namo is the invocation. The Namo Guan Shi Yin. Guan Shi Yin is the name of Kuan Yin, which means the one who hears the sounds of the world. And then Namo Amitabha, Guan Shi Yin Pusa, and then Amitabha is Amitabha Buddha.

✨ Bridging Cultures and Traditions

Grace: Oh, I love that. Yeah, so Alana Fairchild, who was on the podcast for the High Priestess episode, I’ve been using her Kuan Yin deck quite a lot.

She has a Wild Kuan Yin deck and, another Kuan Yin deck, and I actually had that before we chatted, but I think it’s really helpful to connect to your ancestral ties. And I also grew up with the presence of Kuan Yin. My parents have an altar at home, and Kuan Yin is right up top in the center. I find that I think the Wheel of Fortune, when you call on these different beings in your life, whether it be ancestors or guides and whatnot, Something I do feel like is important is connecting to that ancestral tie, but also I think finding the bridge between different cultures and different systems.

For example, like how you bridged Eastern and Western and made it make sense in your own life. And also to other people who are seeking that. I know something that, that was something that I was definitely looking for in my own path. But, for example, like, I’ve been connecting to Ganesh and a mermaid and light beings and so I feel like there’s room for permission to, yes, understand yourself through your ancestral ties, but also understand that you are more than that.

And I feel like that’s also The message that I get with the Wheel of Fortune is very much a sense of understanding oneself to understanding the universe and understanding your connection to everything else. What is that saying? Like, we are all one, basically? I am me. Yeah, but we are here.

Benebell: That’s the essence. You know, the great truth that Eliphas Levi said was in Key 10, 10 being the Ten Sephiroth of the Kabbalah. So there’s this idea that if you understand various esoteric systems, specifically in Occult Tarot, it was Rosicrucianism, Hermeticism, Hermetic Philosophy, Astrology, Alchemy, and the Kabbalah.

When you understand the different systems, you can actually see how they connect, and the synchronicities is where great truth and the divine is revealed. And bringing East and West, in card 10, Wheel of Fortune, I love, for example, the trigram correspondence of the the Bagua is Wind, and Wind’s correspondence is Jupiter.

Jupiter is the astrological correspondence to Key 10, Wheel of Fortune, Per the Golden Dawn. So you do see a lot of, and then if you study Kabbalah, and you study Taoist mysticism, there’s so much crossover between the two. And when I speak with Kabbalists who have some understanding of Buddhism and Taoism, they can’t believe how much crossover there is in Taoist mysticism and the Kabbalah, and same vice versa with when I study Kabbalah.

So I think we see that truth when you study something like the Tarot, because the Tarot is a platform for multiple systems to be aligned and to layer on top of each other.

✨ Discovering True Self in Change

Grace: Yeah, absolutely. That’s how I look at the world of mysticism, esoterics. Spiritual Wellness. It’s really about coming to your truth and being centered, because I feel like that’s also about the Wheel of Fortune is just, there’s so many things happening around you or can happen around you, but if you’re in a state of feeling centered and feeling at peace, which is not always easy, by the way, But if you’re able to stay centered in the moments of chaos, I feel like that’s actually where you can see the truth of who you are in the midst of change.

And in that state of change, you’re in essence still who you are, even if you’re changing. Or maybe as you’re changing, you’re growing more into who you are.

Benebell: I absolutely agree. I think when you lean into that change. You are more yourself than ever.

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✨ Predicting Patterns, Not the Future

Grace: Something I feel like you’re really good at is absorbing a lot of information. And what are some tips that you could give someone for wanting to learn more about these different systems and also how does that look in your life? Like, how do you use it?

Benebell: How do I use it? Well, one, when I do tarot readings, I like to see, if you know multiple systems, you start seeing patterns. And when you can see patterns, psychic ability almost becomes a science because I do believe very strongly I have this faith there is this greater truth and that if you can read the patterns in the world, then you can see what’s going to happen next.

It’s not psychic ability, it’s just if then statements. If you know science, you know what’s going to happen next, not because you can predict the future, but because you know how the world works, you know how the wheel turns. And so I think learning the different systems really helps me know what’s coming up next, in very practical ways, being able to predict the stock market, to know what’s going to happen next in the real estate market, so that you can Be financially secure, knowing what’s happening next so that you can brace yourself for change.

Instead of feeling this compulsion to change difficult things that will happen, knowing how to brace yourself to navigate what’s going to happen. For example, when the quarantine came, when COVID came, instead of feeling the need to change it or to hide or run away from it, how do you buckle down, embrace yourself for what’s to come.

And I think learning the different systems, you immediately see the stars. You see what’s going to happen before it happens. Not because you’re a psychic, but just because you can read the signs of nature. And so I think that’s the most important reason to learn these different systems. How to, like on a very practical level, having lots of journals.

So I have many notebooks and every single notebook is dedicated to a different system. And the first thing, or binders, and the first thing I do is break down the different subtopics in each system, and that’s pretty easy. Look for books, the table of contents in different books, the indexes in different books, or even YouTube channels.

It can be free. You don’t have to buy anything. So figure out what the deconstruct, figure out the parts of the whole, create tabs for the parts of the whole, and then start populating each tab with information about the sub parts of the whole. And before you know it, you’ve already, you didn’t even try to memorize, you just know.

So it’s not about memorization, it’s about knowledge. If you keep at the system with great depth and consistency, you cannot help but to absorb that information and keep it permanently. If you don’t memorize but rather study and absorb it on that way, it’s always yours. You’ll never lose it.

Grace: Yeah, and I feel like when you’re living it, then you start seeing the patterns too when you’re like practicing reading the cards as spreads or practicing pulling a card a day.

So it is very much about a ritual and creating a practice for yourself and Ultimately, when you do these practices, you’re creating sacred space to connect to yourself more. It’s a win win, everyone.

✨ What’s Your Sun, Moon, and Rising Signs?

Grace: What is your Sun, Moon, and Rising Signs in astrology?

Benebell: Sun Sign Libra, Moon Sign Leo, Aquarius Rising.

Grace: Do you resonate with that?

Benebell: I think so. I mean, the funny thing, right? Is also, if you look at, because that’s under the tropical wheel, but if you look at a sidereal wheel where it’s the exact alignment of the constellations at the moment of birth, if you look physically up into the skies, instead of, what was it, instead of Libra, it’s Virgo, because you know how it shifts houses based on the type of wheel and zodiac system that you’re using.

And Because of that, I find, oh wow, it really is interesting how I do have both that Virgo and Libra energy in me, because not only am I a Sun Sign Libra, but I have a stellium, so like a whole bunch of my planets are all in Libra. But then if it’s a different house system, it’s Virgo instead of Libra.

And so just understanding and reconciling that is something that I feel like, really strongly resonates with how I view myself.

Grace: Absolutely, yeah, depending on whatever system you’re using, like, let’s say Vedic, like, my entire chart changes, and then I’m like, I can resonate with that too! And it’s like because it’s like my Pisces, or I have a Pisces moon, but my Sun Sign changes into Pisces as well, and I’m an early Aries, so I really resonate with the Piscean energy.

I feel like something along with the Wheel of Fortune to wrap up. You know, our conversation about it, there’s something about rituals and practices that is coming up with, I think, the constant of change, and another way to ground yourself is by doing practices, like pulling a card a day, or whatever you like to do, meditation, journaling, etc., studying.

✨ What Are Your Favorite Rituals?

Grace: And I’m wondering, what are some of your favorite rituals?

Benebell: Isn’t it so fascinating how in every major religious tradition, a lot of the popular prayers or popular anything that people use as ritual has to do with how to navigate change. You invoke some divine being from your religious tradition and say, hey, divine being, please help me navigate the changes or the things that are out of my control.

Please help me navigate what’s out of my control. You see that in Catholicism, you see that in Buddhism, you see them in all religions. So for me, I guess it would be the reading and recitation of Da Bei Zhou, which is the Great Compassion Mantra. The Great Compassion Mantra is this, it’s associated with Kuan Yin.

And when you recite it, it’s this idea of creating a bubble of protection around yourself and creating a bubble of protection around those you love. And the idea is the only way to truly protect yourself is to begin by protecting others. So the idea of metta and self sacrifice is very much embedded in the ethos of Kuan Yin. And that has always been my go to way of grounding and navigating the changes of life.

✨ The Balance of Challenge and Growth

Grace: Yeah, I’ve been thinking about that lately as well of protection in that it comes up a lot in the spiritual community of getting your black obsidian or crystal or whatever and using that to ground yourself and protect yourself from bad energy and, Etc, etc, and I feel like something that’s been coming up for me anyway is why don’t you protect yourself with a shield of love, energy bubble of love, so that no matter what comes through you, you’re still giving yourself love, and the other person, but you’re protected through that love instead of, because it kind of feels like Almost like a harshness to have a shield where, and you know, not everyone has great intentions out there so of course it’s very valid to want to protect yourself.

I think there are different ways of protecting yourself and I think shifting how you think about protecting yourself because it’s almost like really fear based. Anyway, I’m just mentioning a whole thought that has been going on That I think love is a very powerful energy, and to integrate it more into ourselves and our systems, we may not need as powerful protection when we integrate it more into our bodies and the way we live, and I think through the changes, through the constants in our lives, We are thrown into lessons, and I find that when I haven’t learned a lesson in my own life, it just repeats over and over again until I get the lesson, and I feel like that’s probably a gift of change.

It’s not always easy, but change often brings growth as well, and if you’re ready for the growth, then change is just a necessity.

Benebell: I have very strong opinions about life shielding. I’m so glad that you brought it up. I think when we, when we assume that you shield yourself Blocking out the negative, and somehow you can let the positive in by that concept of filtering, I think a lot of that is magical thinking, and isn’t grounded in the way life works, and so you have to take the good with the bad, you don’t just take the good.

So if you want to shield and basically create this block all around you, you’re also blocking growth. And if you block difficulty from entering into your space, you don’t have any opportunities for growth, you will never realize how great you are, you will never achieve extraordinary levels of greatness because you’ve blocked opportunities for growth.

Look at the 1 percent in anything, in any field, anyone who is exceptional in what they’re doing, none of them have lived a blessed life. All of them have experienced profound levels of challenge, personal difficulty, going through the the, the, the dark night. They all had to go through that in order to find just, to find the diamond within.

So if you block out so much and you do all of that shielding, I don’t know that you’re actually growing and evolving. And so you do need to embrace challenge and I think that’s one of my biggest hangups with this. A lot of the love and light community is that this, this concept of having to block out challenges and difficulties and only live in the space of prosperity and wealth and abundance.

I don’t know that that’s really what you want.

Grace: It’s also just not very realistic and I think that the experience of life is filled with The entire spectrum of experiences and I feel like when you have like a down moment, right, is when you appreciate the higher up moments that you may experience.

✨ The Double-Edged Sword of Identity

Grace: And without the constant and the contrast, you may just not appreciate what life has to offer or even your growth. Like, let’s say a year ago, you were in a completely different place and just like how much you’ve grown in a year, for example. You know, something you mentioned before that’s coming back to me is This idea of being special, and I think that’s something that really protected me as a belief, like, oh my god, like, I’m special, I’m artistic, I’m I was a very artistic child, and so that was something I really gravitated towards in my own identity, and something that’s been coming up for me is that specialness is a protection layer for myself, and that it’s something that I would need to shed and part of my identity to grow, you know?

It’s not just who I am anymore, I’m so many other things, and I feel like that’s the layer you Or the journey of uncovering layers of oneself is that these beliefs that you may have when you were younger to protect yourself or to give yourself something that you really needed in that moment, it may change as you go further along in your journey.

Benebell: It’s a double edged sword. I think exceptionalism gives us A stronger sense of personal identity, so I definitely see the value of finding what you’re talented at and living in that space and really being proud of that. I think that’s where we find personal identity, but the negative side to that is because life is fickle, what happens if you lose it?

If you lose that thing that you have tied and tethered your identity to, who are you? And if you don’t know who you are without your talent, then you don’t know who you are. And so I think being able to separate your talent from who you are and knowing who you are is a very important step in our spiritual journeys.

So that when that day comes, knock on wood, it never does. But if it does, and you lose that, Who are you?

Grace: Wow, that’s really deep. I feel like so many people went through their own dark night of the soul, especially during the pandemic of just like, who am I without my vocation or my occupation? And so many people when you You know, introduce yourselves or you meet other people, they often introduce themselves in the way of like, oh, I’m a doctor or I’m this, as if it’s who they are versus their talent or gift.

And I think a lot of people are coming to that what they can do is not necessarily who they are. Like, what you can achieve is not necessarily your great contribution. Like, it can be. I think there’s also value in presence. Like your presence can be enough in sharing space with somebody. Maybe this takes me back to a memory.

I, I think I was in high school, but I was like walking across the street and this guy was really Looking so angry in his car, and I just smiled at him, and he broke out into a huge smile. And it just surprised me, I wasn’t expecting that. And I don’t even think I was smiling at him, I think I was just remembering something, and I just broke out into a smile.

And I think that’s just an example of, you don’t necessarily have to throw yourself into your achievements to matter. You can affect somebody in surprising ways just for being yourself.

Benebell: Not to get into social commentary, but that was the great blessing and the great tragedy of the epidemic, where we lost that part that we had so tethered our identity to exactly what you said.

We all introduce ourselves with what we do, and so when everybody no one worked for a long time, so you didn’t have that. You didn’t have that thing that you used to fill your sense of identity. And those who thrived were those who, like you said, learned to appreciate the value of their presence, and you saw families coming together, realizing the importance of their presence, and then you also saw relationships fall apart when they weren’t able to learn the lesson of the value of one another’s presence.

And so that was the great blessing and great tragedy of the pandemic was you were put in a position where you had to rise to the occasion. And like you said, a lot of people who were in one type of field, very analytical fields, were stuck at home and they decided to pursue arts and crafts. And they learned a completely new side of who they were, and a new sense of identity.

And so I think that that is a very important aspect of what happened there.

✨ Creation of the Spirit Keeper’s Tarot

Grace: Yeah, like a surge of baking and nail art.

Benebell: And tarot decks! Do you know how many tarot and oracle decks were created during 2020 and 2021?

Grace: I bet! Yeah, it’s a very introspective practice of making one’s own deck, and I know that you’ve made your own deck too, the Spirit Keeper’s Tarot, and I would love to hear about your process.

I was looking at all the artwork. It’s very impressive, very detail oriented, of course, with all of your esoteric knowledge embedded into it. We’d just love to hear about, like, how you started creating your deck, what was the inspiration, and your journey.

Benebell: The funny thing is, what started it, it was actually the negative side of not leaning into exceptionalism, where, okay, if you keep telling yourself you’re ordinary, and then you start believing it, I, I’ve always wanted to create a tarot deck, but I was like, oh, there are so many much more talented artists and much more knowledgeable tarotists out there.

Who the heck am I to create yet another tarot deck to put into this world of like already like a diluted marketplace of so many tarot decks. And that, the negative side of not having exceptionalism is like the inhibition and feeling that I wasn’t worthy of creating something and putting it out there.

For me, the way I got over that was just to tell myself, Okay, I’m just creating it for myself. It’s going to be a 100 percent selfish endeavor. So leaning into individualism and selfishness is actually what got me out of that inhibition. And I was like, Okay, this is not for anybody else. I don’t even care if nobody likes it.

This is just for me. And that freed me. That was very liberating. Because now I didn’t have to live up to anybody’s expectations. It was 100 percent correct. It couldn’t possibly be wrong in any way. Because it’s for me, right? And so that really liberated me and got me into creating. And so I got back into drawing, which is something I’ve always loved.

So I hand drew the, it was 80 cards instead of 78. So I hand drew 80 cards, scanned it in, and then decided, okay, well, I guess I’ll just sell it and if nobody buys it, I’ll just sell it. Give them away as Christmas gifts for the next 10 years, but if people buy it, that’s cool. And so that’s kind of how it started.

It was just, wanting to something that I’ve always wanted to do, but not having like that, that confidence to do it. And then once I got that positive feedback, quarantine during the pandemic, I decided to teach myself digital painting and digital art. And that’s how the SKT went into full color, is because I finally taught myself how to do digital art.

Grace: Well, congratulations, it’s beautiful. And I saw Kuan Yin on the Ten of Chalices, which is Cups, and I feel like there’s just a lot of thoughtfulness in your deck. And I can see it come through with your own background, your own experience, and all the knowledge that you’ve accumulated through your own studies. And reading a tarot deck is a lot of work. Everyone, be prepared for the challenge if you’re up for it.

✨ Synchronicity in Tarot Creation

Grace: But something that I found through creating a tarot deck is that you tend to go through the lessons of the cards. Did you experience that when you were creating your deck?

Benebell: Isn’t that hilarious? Every single deck creator talks about this experience where if you’re creating, if you’re working on the Ten of Swords, it just seems like there’s Ten of Swords events happening in your life, Three of Swords if you’re working on the Ten of Cups Something Ten of Cups ish happens, and yes, it absolutely happened with this deck.

I’m currently working on an Atea reconstruction, and it’s happening with that deck as well, which got me into this superstition. You know how sometimes you don’t work on a deck continuously? You might stop, and there’s like a long hiatus where you don’t work on your tarot deck? Like, I’m obsessed with, I have to stop on a good card, because I’m scared that if I stop on a bad card during the entire hiatus, I have that energy of like, The Death card hanging over us is really stupid and superstitious but like because of our experiences where when you’re working on a card, the world around you is governed by the themes of that card and you’re like, okay, I better not stop this work on a bad card.

Absolutely. It’s so weird how that happens. I don’t know if it’s like, to be skeptical, right? You know how if you buy a Honda Civic, then the only car you see on the highway are Honda Civics? So is it that? Where like, because I’m working on, right? Like, I’m working on the Two of Cups, so all I see are Two of Cups themes in the world.

Like, I don’t know. Chicken or the egg? I don’t know.

Grace: It’s being presented for a reason. Like, so for example, I have flamingos on my lover’s card, but now when I see flamingos, but especially two flamingos, I’m like, oh, that’s a lover’s card, that’s a sign for me.

✨ Butterflies, Dragonflies, and Spiritual Communication

Grace: And I think something about the Wheel of Fortune as well is that there’s just a lot of synchronicities in life. You know, whether it’s, like, for example, I walked my dog earlier and I saw a butterfly, a white butterfly, and that always reminds me of my grandmother that passed, and I feel like there are just signs everywhere for us to consider that we’re constantly being sent messages from whoever’s on our spiritual council that wants to communicate with you.

Benebell: Quick insert, sorry to interrupt, but you know how the Chinese believe that when you see butterflies and dragonflies, it’s your ancestor visiting? It’s absolutely a long standing, enduring, like, it’s so fixed, like, it’s immutable in the way we perceive the world as Chinese, is that when you see butterflies and dragonflies, and there’s that moment of like, like, you’re connecting to that, that butterfly or dragon like, that moment, there’s something more than just a passing by, it’s actually your ancestor who’s coming by to check in on you.

Grace: Oh, I love that. I always intuitively felt the white butterfly was my grandmother, and The White Butterfly showed up in a big way when my family and I had visited her grave, and then afterwards there was just this white butterfly flying around and I just knew it was her. But you mentioned dragonflies, and I only see dragonflies when I am in a transitional state in my life.

And I just saw one today, too. So I guess I’m experiencing some Wheel of Fortune themes today. But that’s really great.

✨ Divine Guidance in Uncertain Times

Grace: You know, have you experienced any synchronicities in your life where you’ve just been like, wow, that was clearly a message for me?

Benebell: Wow, so many. Like I don’t even know where to begin.

I guess there’s just so many. I think that’s the reason I have such a strong faith in a divine and a greater truth and that everything is interconnected. I think because my life experience is consistently reinforced. With synchronicities, that in my worldview, the only explanation for everything, all the different moving parts coming together and piecing into something cohesive, the only explanation is a God principle.

And that’s the reason I have such a strong immutable faith, is because of the synchronicities that consistently happen. And also these synchronicities that you can make happen. When you have faith and when you invoke divinity into your life actively. So that’s the reason I believe that. I guess the biggest one, it’s not one thing, an example, it’s more whenever, well, you have that moment of like, I don’t know what my next step is.

Instead of resisting my unknowing, Sitting in that space of uncertainty and being okay with fear and anxiety for that moment, just a temporary moment, and saying okay, I really don’t know what to do next, please help. In that moment, if you are sincere in that moment, for me, synchronous omens happen in the world that can, I personally can only explain as some guide from beyond, giving me signs of hey, I know you think life sucks right now, but let me help you, because I have the wisdom, the knowledge, the bigger picture.

I can see things you can’t see. So let me give you a hint, and then if I follow those signs, I navigate out of that space of fear and anxiety. And I don’t and it happens so frequently that I don’t have specific examples, because it’s every time in my life. That that’s happened, like, choosing which career path, choosing what book to write next, choosing who to marry, choosing whether or not to break up with somebody, all of these things, in that moment of uncertainty, greater signs from nature and above have given me, have shown me the way.

Grace: Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like for anyone that isn’t in a Feeling uncertainty or fear or anxiety. I feel like when you openly ask for your help is when you allow yourself to receive it. And the messages might have been appearing for you, but you might not have been paying attention. And I words are spells, so they say, and so invoking that connection to the divine can often help.

Bring it in. Just even open up your own awareness. So maybe that’s angel numbers. Maybe that’s certain animals. It was bizarre. I mentioned mermaids earlier. It’s not bizarre, I guess, but it’s a mermaid had appeared in my light language meditation, and then I went to Starbucks, and on the sign in screen, there was a mermaid.

I just felt like there was like a theme of mermaids coming through. So that’s just an example of Some synchronicity, you just might see something over and over again. But yeah, I think opening yourself up to even channel that information whether you’re in that state of change or not, can help you bring that sense of stableness and centeredness in the face of.

This Wheel of Fortune theme.

Benebell: Yeah. And then just to be clear, acknowledging your fear and fear mongering are two totally different things. And I think being self aware enough to know the difference between fear mongering and acknowledging your moment, that’s really important. And that’s a lesson of wisdom that we all have to learn.

✨ What is Fear Mongering?

Grace: What is fear mongering?

Benebell: Fear mongering, I think of that as when I’m afraid of something, but instead of acknowledging my fear, I go around evangelizing this doom and gloom to other people so that everybody can be at my level of vibration. Instead of dealing with my issue, I make it your problem, right? So I can’t just be in this space of negativity myself.

I need to pull you in, pull you down to my level. In this moment, and then neither one of us are up, right? Like, that’s fear mongering. Acknowledging fear is sitting in my low, like, okay, instead of instead of rejecting that I’m in a low level and say, oh, I’m high vibe and not facing the reality of where I actually am, being like, okay, I’m in a space of low vibe right now.

And I really need someone to help me pull up to somewhere better. Like, I need, that’s acknowledging fear. Not taking people down, right? Instead of taking people down with you. Holding a hemp, say, Hey, can someone lift me up?

Grace: Yeah. And I think that takes a lot of practice and self awareness to notice that about oneself.

And I would say that I’ve experienced a lot of that. And I think that’s part of, if you experience that within like family structures and people who have been through trauma, they might not even know that they’re doing it. It’s just such a part of their reality and nature. And I think that’s why inner work is so important.

So whatever form. Want to take, and I think Tarot is a really great way to build that self awareness, but if we are communicating that fear, I think that is something that is reflected back to us into our systems, and you know, there’s, I think, a difference between expressing oneself to release and expressing oneself to make an energy bigger, which I think is the fear mongering of spreading fear versus like getting it out of your system to not be in your energy field anymore.

✨ One Card Collective Reading

Grace: So would you like to do a collective reading for us?

Benebell: Let’s do it! Yeah, I’m excited.

Grace: This is from Benebell’s Spirit Keeper’s Tarot.

Benebell: Mm hmm. You can see that. Can I show you? I’m shuffling.

Grace: Yeah.

Benebell: All right, tell me when to stop and when you want me to pull the card.

Grace: Okay, stop.

Benebell: The World card.

Grace: Wow.

Benebell: And it has so much symbolism that crosses over to the Wheel, the Wheel of Fortune card the four elements. And this is the idea, the four plus three plus two plus one is the Great Truth. And so the Wheel of Fortune is forecasting the omen of the World card to come, right?

So that’s the whole concept. So I think that’s really interesting. This, I would say, for me, because it’s the New World Order, and I read based on the system that I’m using, I think right now, we are, we talk so much about shifts and changes, and I think a lot of people have been intuiting that we are as a whole age, as a whole collective, global collective, we are shifting into a new age where people That have been so rooted in this old, the way that we’ve been for so long.

It’s going to be really difficult because it feels like an apocalypse. It feels like an end of days because it’s the end of something that we were familiar with. And so I think the world card is about navigating the finalization of a new age that’s coming. So I think that’s the end. My message for the world is to everything that we’ve been talking about, instead of sitting in a place of fear mongering or trying to hold back, like, trying to like, slow down the process of change like, sit and lean into the pace of that change.

If you sit into the pace of the change, you’re going to end up somewhere beautiful and wonderful. But if you try to slow down and hold back the pace of change, you’re going to find yourself like.

Grace: Well, that’s such a beautiful message. Thank you so much. And I feel like that’s gonna resonate with a lot of people, because obviously the pandemic was very impactful, and I feel like a pivotal point for how people reacted.

You know, whether you wanted to expand your skill set, or how you dealt with uncertain conditions, I think just told you a lot about yourself. You know, the actions you took or didn’t take can be just an indication of where you’re at in the face of change. And your willingness to either confront or avoid.

And I love that. I actually felt very, hopeful when you pulled the World card. Because I feel like that is a sense of completion that, not necessarily that we’re going to come to a point of where everything’s going to be okay and whatnot. But as you mentioned earlier in our conversation, there are patterns in history.

You know, there are ups and downs. And I do feel like Collectively, we’ve all been through some tough times, and we’re all looking forward to a Golden Era, and I’m hopeful, I’m very hopeful.

Benebell: Yeah, I do think it’s, and also the Saturn Correspondence there, this idea of, I think it’s a new tradition that is being established.

And so I’m very hopeful, for example, for Gen Z and the, those who are the new pillars and leading the charge. I think I’m very hopeful for where they’re taking us.

Grace: Yeah. Yeah, as soon as you pulled the card, too, I was like, wow, it just, like, there’s so many synchronicities as well, and crossover, as you said, between the Wheel of Fortune and the world, and I think in a lot of ways they just, like, mirror one another, but just at different points of the journey.

And with the world card being The end, but the Fool is also the beginning and the end as well. It’s, I feel like it marks the beginning of something, too. The beginning of a new way of living, or being, or accepting, and perhaps the end to just what we’ve been experiencing collectively, so.

Benebell: You know, the Wheel of Fortune is Key 10. It’s often, when you’re looking at numerology, it’s considered the midpoint of the Major Arcana, and then, of course, the World Card is the final, and so there’s a parallel, there’s a vertical parallel between Key 10 and Key 21, which is why in Occult Tarot Decks, the symbolism, the composition is so similar in Key 10 and Key 21, is to show that One is the the next implication of the first it’s before and after.

So they’re showing the two panels show before and after, or present and future, something like that, right? And then in the Atea deck, because the numbering system is different, in the Atea deck, actually, you want to talk about numbers, Key 20 the Wheel of Fortune is Key 20 in the Atea deck. And so there is that idea of before and after.

So ending on the World card, when the whole conversation was about the Wheel of Fortune is. Is a really great way to conclude, and so I definitely feel like there are, we didn’t pull those cards ourselves. There was definitely a divine intervention.

Grace: Definitely, for sure.

✨ Closing Statements

Grace: Well, thank you so much for your time, Benebell.

This was enlightening, and I feel like for anyone that is experiencing change or uncertainty, there are definitely ways to, I think, feel connected, but also ground yourself. I think there’s so much mirroring with. The internal world and landscape of our own emotions and our own individual experiences, but also I think there’s a mirroring collectively as well.

The car thing. When I bought my car, I kept seeing a Kia Soul everywhere. So I think What we’re experiencing internally can be reflected externally, and yeah, it’s a beautiful thing. So thank you so much, Benebell.

Benebell: Thank you. And Eliphas Levi said that the great truth revealed in Key 10, Wheel of Fortune, is that whatever you see physically is proportionate to the invisible influences on the physical.

And so it’s funny, what you were just talking about is exactly what Levi said the meaning of the Wheel of Fortune card was.

Grace: Wow, very cool. Okay, until next time!

Grace: Well, thank you so much, Catherine. This was such a pleasure. Thank you for sharing your I Ching wisdom and your gorgeous deck. I actually, I feel like I’m going to be using this more.

I feel like while you were talking about the I Ching, my third eye was and I think that’s a sign for me to also integrate this more into my life. So thank you so much for sharing with us today.

Catherine: Thanks so much for having me. It was really such a pleasure and an honor, honestly.

Grace: Likewise. All right, talk later, bye!

Catherine: Thanks so much.

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✨ End of Episode – Make Sure to Leave a Podcast Review!

Grace: Thanks so much for tuning in to today’s episode with Benebell Wen. I’m so glad that we got to talk about the themes of the Wheel of Fortune Tarot card with Benebell to talk about the wheels of change and how we can best manage that.

Change affects everyone differently, so I’m curious. How do you deal with change? What keeps you connected to your center in the midst of change? And are you allowing the universe to co create with you? And as a reminder, we are doing a giveaway of Benebell’s book, The Holistic Tarot, on YouTube and Instagram.

Until next time, if there’s one thing you can release, let it go, so that you can make space for what you want to call in. Sending you grace today and every day.

Grace: Thanks for tuning in to this episode! Remember to subscribe and check out more Graced Podcast episodes for how to apply everyday magic to your everyday life.

See you next time!