Check out the latest GRACED Podcast Episode 💖

Listen to the GRACED Podcast

00:00 Introduction

00:49 Giveaway Details to Win the Tarot of the Owls Deck!

01:43 How to Create & Market your Deck Masterclass – RSVP for your ticket!


02:33 Interview begins, introducing Pamela Chen

02:55 Pamela’s inspiration behind creating her decks

04:53 Self publishing vs working with a publisher

06:04 Themes of the Magician card

07:19 The Four Realms of Manifestation

08:43 Second Realm of Manifestation

09:50 Third Realm of Manifestation

10:38 Fourth Realm of Manifestation

12:05 Detachment in the Manifestation Process

16:17 What is Alchemy?

19:36 Putting Ourselves in our Decks

21:06 Advice for your Younger Self

21:56 How to Handle Manifestations that Happen too Fast

24:05 How to Embody Manifestation

25:44 What is a Walking Meditation

28:05 The Power of Gratitude

28:41 Taking Responsibility for your Reality

30:36 Getting into Alignment

33:50 AD – Pamela’s Activated Business Academy – receive a $2000 scholarship!


34:52 Taking Aligned Action

36:37 Words are Spells

38:08 How to Change your Relationship to Money

41:27 How to Surrender

44:58 What Pamela is Working on Next

47:47 Having Galactic Fun

53:32 Grace gives Pamela a Tarot Reading

57:18 Pamela’s Favorite Rituals

58:33 Where to Connect with Pamela

58:56 Endtro + Giveaway Details for the Tarot of the Owls deck!


➡️ Buy the Tarot of the Owls deck on Amazon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

➡️ Buy the Witchlings Academy Tarot deck on Amazon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


In this episode, we’ll be diving deep into the themes of the Magician card, which represents inventiveness, manifestation, and activating your pure potential. The Magician happens to be one of my Tarot birth cards and so, goes without saying, is one of my personal favorite cards. Our guest today is Pamela Chen, who is the author of several Tarot decks, including the Tarot of the Owls and the Witchling Academy Tarot, which, if you check out my YouTube channel – you can watch the unboxing videos – links in the show notes! We talk about manifestation, of course, but we dive even deeper by also talking about the four realms of manifestation, tangible manifestation techniques you can use in your everyday life, how to surrender and detach from the outcome, as well as Pamela’s approach to creating her Tarot and Oracle decks.

Check out the OK Tarot deck unboxing and giveaway details on YouTube!

Full Transcript


Hello and welcome to the GRACED podcast, where we infuse everyday magic into your everyday life. 

Today’s episode, we’ll be diving deep into the themes of the Magician card, which represents inventiveness, manifestation, and activating your pure potential. The Magician happens to be one of my Tarot birth cards and so, goes without saying, is one of my personal favorite cards.

Our guest today is Pamela Chen, who is the author of several Tarot decks, including the Tarot of the Owls and the Witchling Academy Tarot, which, if you check out my YouTube channel – you can watch the unboxing videos – links in the show notes! 

Also we are doing a giveaway of THREE Tarot of the Owls decks – all you have to do is submit a podcast review to enter! Full details on how to enter will be at the end of this episode! 

Pamela is also a business mentor and money manifesting coach, helping high achieving creatives manifest their fullest potential. 

There are some truly amazing gems and nuggets of wisdom shared throughout this episode! 

We talk about manifestation, of course, but we dive even deeper by also talking about the four realms of manifestation, tangible manifestation techniques you can use in your everyday life, how to surrender and detach from the outcome, as well as Pamela’s approach to creating her Tarot and Oracle decks.

Before we get started, I did want to let you know about my masterclass I’m hosting on May 15th on how to Create Your Own Deck. After creating 4 decks now, both self-published and working with traditional publishers, I can walk you through the ins and outs of making a deck that I wish someone had told me when I was first starting out! 

No matter where you are in the process, if you just have an idea, you’ve started making your deck, or you already have a deck, this masterclass will still have very valuable information for you to take with you on your journey as a deck creator.

To RSVP for your ticket, go to

Can’t wait to see you there!

Now let’s get into the episode!


Interview begins, introducing Pamela Chen

Grace Duong: Hello, Pamela! so excited to have you on the podcast today.

Pamela Chen: Hi, Grace! Thanks for having me.

Pamela’s inspiration behind creating her decks

Grace Duong: Yeah, definitely! So I’ve got some of your decks with me today.

Pamela Chen: Yay!

Grace Duong: The Tarot of the Owls and the Witchling Academy Tarot. They’re both so gorgeous and I can tell a lot of thought went into your decks, so I was just wondering you know, where do you get your inspiration from when you’re creating these decks.

Pamela Chen: So it’s really funny b ecause I was following you in the beginning at the first time when I created my first self published deck which was Crystal Unicorn Tarot and that was through this soul remembrance thing I was doing and it just took me to like this crystal unicorn forest. The Witchling Academy Tarot, I wanted to do some kind of—first it turned out to be a Wizardling deck. my artist couldn’t draw males so it turned into Witchling deck and she actually was 19 at the time and so we kind of leveled up together and that was my first submission to Llewellyn. That was my first published deck and it was a labor of love. There was a lot work learning how to write the guidebook. The creation part was very easy for me. It changed a lot that one. Because I had to change a lot of components to fit the artist. Tarot of the Owls, I was actually working on another deck and then all of a sudden I’m like “Wait! There’s no owl decks out there!” and I downloaded everything wrote out 78 art. You know, the art descriptions and the whole proposal in 3 days. So that one just took off so the owls was very very easy.

Grace Duong: That’s so awesome! Because I feel like the creation process is very much fluid in terms of whatever the subject matter is so it’s interesting that it seems like you have this almost like Hogwarts theme with the Witchling Academy Tarot and that does seem a little bit more involved thinking about the different What do you call it? Like the different classes of the suits and whatnot?

Pamela Chen: Yes!

Grace Duong: and then with Tarot of the Owls, I mean it’s very clear that the owls are the subject matter here. And they’re so cute by the way, like the way they’re illustrated.

Pamela Chen: Yeah, they really do.




Self publishing vs working with a publisher

Grace Duong: You mentioned soul remembrance in creating your first self published Tarot deck and I was just wondering what the difference was between that process and working with a publisher.

Pamela Chen: I actually really enjoyed the self-publishing, because I’m also an entrepreneur so creating a deck is like creating a business. And so I already had the business skills and abilities to kickstart my deck for the launch. I did try to create a couple of decks before that were really not real decks, and then all of a sudden I’m like: “Unicorns!” This is 2018, I believe, so unicorns wasn’t mainstream mainstream yet but I always had a really strong connection to them and I’m like: “I need a unicorn deck!” and so it was my best friend’s best friend that drew it. She’s actually a clothing designer and I asked her “Can you just do Rider–Waite–Smith but unicorn?” And that was really easy. All we have to do is pick the colors, what the unicorns look like, lock it down, and she just kind of did the rest.

Themes of the Magician card

Grace Duong: That’s amazing! So let’s dive into the themes of the Magician, and I’d love to hear about what your relationship is with this card and how do you relate to the Magician?

Pamela Chen: Yeah! If you noticed the Witchling and the Owl, they both have the Magician card on the cover. So I didn’t pick it pick it because Llewellyn gets last choice but they’re both the Magician. I think I just have really powerful manifestation energy. I like to teach it! I like to do it! I like to manifest! Do some kind of manifestation practice every day. And think that’s what the Magician brings, that it’s not the tools, it’s not what you are doing, it’s not the method that manifests for you, but you are the manifestation. And you’re practice and your tools just helps you realize that into reality.

Grace Duong: I love that! I love that because I feel like sometimes people might not feel like they’re very powerful. But in essence, you are constantly manifesting your reality whether it’s a “good thought” or a “bad thought” So how do you handle manifestation? And what are some of the manifestation techniques that you incorporate into your own life?

The Four Realms of Manifestation

Pamela Chen: So I believe in the four realms of manifestation which is something I discovered and I teach in my program. So the first realm that really creates awareness is the realm of the mind, the Mental Realm Whatever we think of creates, so it starts with the mind. Like you said good thoughts, the bad thoughts, and what really runs our lives is our subconscious mind of the programs that’s in there that we might not know it’s there. When we do these practices whether my favorite is wealth scripting so it’s actually—what do we show? I don’t have it with me— but I write like 2 to 3 pages of what has already happened in my life. So I write it as if it has already happened and I feel really into it. And so this tricks my brain into thinking that it has already happened. If you imagine it, your brain can’t tell the difference between your memory or something that has happened. So if you’re thinking “Wow! Yes! I see all of decks and all of my books and Barnes & Noble’s.” If you keep thinking it, your brain is going to be like, “Well, that’s the reality! Let me go out and find opportunities that gets me there.” So the Mental Realm is very powerful and we know that a lot of people teach that.

Second Realm of Manifestation

 Pamela Chen: The second realm is the Energetic Realm also the magic realm, the energy. Your mind, everything that you think creates energy. We are energy. This computer, your phone is energy. Everything is connected. Everything is energy. We can connect to what we desire through this energy. So if you’re thinking higher vibrational energetic thoughts, which is the good thoughts because they vibrate literally like a radio frequency at a higher frequency, right? Low vibe doesn’t mean that you’re not good. Lower frequency just means that whatever you’re thinking of or your feeling is lower in moving frequency. If you desire success and all of the things they actually move faster and that’s why people tell you to be high vibe all the time. So it’s not good or bad. Our thoughts turns into energy and then it becomes the feelings, the Emotional Realm.

Third Realm of Manifestation

Pamela Chen: So the third realm is the Emotional Realm where you have to really “feel” what you’re thinking and what this energy is, because your heart is actually the magnetism. So if you can think it and the energy get sent out there? And it really worked with the quantum field which is like the field of possibilities? Anything can happen! Anything that you desire is already there. And so when you feel it? That’s the magnetism that draws it in. So you think it, and your energy gets sent out, and then you feel. So it usually feeling really expansive, really grounded, really happy, blissful, whatever it is, right? Gratitude is a really good one. It will draw that in. It will draw that in! So if you put it together it’s very powerful.

Fourth Realm of Manifestation

Pamela Chen: The fourth realm, I really didn’t learn until a couple of years ago. So since I was little, I’ve always been going out of my body if I didn’t like my physical circumstances. So if something happens to me, I would literally leave my body. And so like go play with the fairies and the unicorns and going into other realms. And so what I’ve noticed when I was with one of my vocal coaches, Vocal Magic Coach, She said that you need to come back to the body and embody your magic. So that you can have more powerful manifestations, because we live in our body. We’re having a human experience. So all the magic we do, all of the mindset work, all the energy work we do, if we don’t bring it back in? if we don’t bring it back into the physical then you can still manifest but it might just take a while longer. So when I was able to “be” and “live” who I was imagining and sending out then having the stuff rapidly came to me if that makes sense and life just got a lot easier.

Grace Duong: That’s a really awesome way of describing the manifestation levels in terms of steps almost where people can apply it in their lives. So thank you for explaining that for us.

Detachment in the Manifestation Process

Grace Duong: How do you deal with the frustration of not having the manifestation yet. Because some people might will it and will it to happen but it’s not happening. And so there might be this frustration that’s occurring that might even be blocking someone from manifesting something. So how would you deal with that?

Pamela Chen: Yeah! You’re definitely right, Grace. It is a block. So when you’re coming from “I need it” I do say “I want” because I’m very detached from it, but if you’re in the “I need it! I want it! I desperately want it! I’m focusing on it every single day.” When we come from that energy, then it actually blocks us. So instead we have to come from a very detached place, like “oh!” instead of, “Oh my gosh! I need to join this program. This coach is going to make me money! I need it! I need it! I need it!” if I come from that place, instead of,  “Wow! This program is  so expansive. If I joined this it’s going to be so amazing for my business.” Do you kind of feel the energetic difference? Than that is what’s going to attract your manifestation faster. So I do teach my clients a couple ways to manifest really focusing on, So I work a lot with money in abundance. Okay, so how much money do you want to attract in every single month? What feels good for you? Right? It doesn’t have to be—it can’t be too little but it can’t also be too big that they’re like I can never get it, you know? So it has to be just right but a little bit stretchy and so you can focus on that. But when you do the wealth scripting that I shared earlier, it’s more expansive. So it’s not about your $10,000 months, it’s not about your $25,000 months, Now it’s about “Wow! I already have a multi-million business! I travel first class everywhere! I do this! I have 10 writing contracts!” So it’s more expansive and it goes beyond. So that whatever comes underneath it is amazing too, right? Like if you get 1 publishing contract, it’s like “Yes!”

 Yeah, so I teach both ways.

 So I feel like most people are familiar with level one,

Grace Duong: Which you would describe as visioning, is that right?

Pamela Chen: Yes, your Mental Realm for sure, visioning— A lot of people do the mindset so reprogramming the mind, reprogramming your beliefs, so I don’t really—when I teach, I don’t need to get to the core. I don’t need to dig, dig, dig to the core of the problem. What has happened in the past? We might do some work on it but that’s not the main thing because if I spend 2 months teaching you how to find the core of your problem, that’s what you’re going to learn. Finding the cores of all your problems is going to be more problems coming up, right? So instead, when we focus on recoding our energy, reprogramming our vision, expansion, and feeling the energies, pulling that in, and being that person then all of that actually gets cleaned up and it takes care of itself.

Grace Duong: Yeah, absolutely I feel like something that is really magical about the Magician is that there is an imagination embedded into this card and an innate sense of resourcefulness like you kind of have to use what you’ve got to create this larger vision for yourself, and I also see it as kind of like divine messaging. You know? Because you’re co-creating with the universe like whatever you’re receiving in your dreams or imagining, or creating, you are essentially the vessel to create whatever is coming through you. And I like that you mentioned detachment because sometimes we can get so attached to the outcome. The outcome of whatever it is we want to create that it almost blocks us from creating that thing and blocks the flow of alchemy. And so I was wondering,

What is Alchemy?

Grace Duong: What is alchemy to you?What does alchemy look like and how has it appeared in your life?

Pamela Chen: So I think the most powerful lesson in alchemy is really the alchemy of my emotions. Before, when I would feel sad or mad or frustrated, I would stuff it down because I was taught you have to be high vibe, right? Like “Don’t! You don’t want to be mad when you’re manifesting!” so I would just be like “Okay!” But what I realized is not shoving it down—it’s not Because if you shove it down, it’s going to all of a sudden come up like a pressure cooker one day. It’s still there within you, and you’re just growing it each time you feel mad, each time you feel sad. So instead of doing that, you bring it up. You are aware of the feelings. You are aware if you’re really mad or upset. And maybe I’ll let myself talk about it to my friends for a day or an hour. Oh my gosh! I can’t believe this happened. I’m so mad! and then I alchemize it, I release it, however it is I want to release. I think the last—I don’t know what I was mad about, but I think I was also PMSing. I just threw something in my trash can, I was like well where did that come from? but it released, right? I didn’t stuff it down, I didn’t make a story, I’m mad because of this, or my life sucks, this person did this to me, because we always take responsibility for everything that we create. So it’s not that person. It’s not that thing. It’s not that event. It’s you! So I owned it and I was like “Okay, I am mad!” and I’m going to be mad for a little bit. And then what happened was I always try to get to neutral because when you’re in that lower state it’s hard to be like “I’m so happy!” So if you get to neutral, that’s great and that can alchemize your emotions to the joy later on, but if you can just get to neutral and be okay with what has happened? Then that’s very powerful.

Grace Duong: Yeah, and I feel like these emotions that might feel a little bit more negative are actually ways that we can decipher how we’re feeling to magnetize whatever it is we want to pull in. If you’re feeling angry then maybe  you need to get all that anger out or if you’re feeling angry then maybe that’s the thing that’s actually propelling you to make a change. So none these emotions are good or bad, I think we just typically label them as like conditioning, but it’s actually not helpful to see it that way because I think the human body is a vessel and as you said like we’re souls living a human experience and so it’s natural to feel the array of the emotions, but to recognize when you’re in a state that’s not necessarily beneficial to you. So if you’re constantly reliving the past and like you mentioned like if you’re constantly focused on the past you’re probably going to create more experiences that reflect the past versus creating the change that will create new experiences for yourself.

Putting Ourselves in our Decks

Grace Duong: And so something I love about the Magician, it’s actually one of my Tarot birth cards so I really resonate with this card and I think its funny that the Magician is on both of the covers of your deck I actually snuck myself in the Magician card in my deck because at the time I had pink hair, and it just reminded me this little bun I used to have or used to wear at the time. Are there any secret things that you’ve snuck into your deck that resemble you in any way?

Pamela Chen: Yes, the Witchling Academy Tarot. I think she’s me. And the little parakeet, Georgie, that was my bird. That was my bird for 8 years and he was really with me on a lot of my spiritual journey, I believe. And so I wanted to honor him in there, so he’s a little blue parakeet and a lot of my friends and family is in my deck. Although some of them doesn’t even look like them, but it was fun to do that and then I actually had that Nine of Cups unicorn onesie. I’m glad Llewellyn let me do that that was a lot of fun. Tarot of the Owls, I didn’t really have any easter eggs with that. I think I was thinking of it but that project came so fast, and Elisabeth was an amazing artist and I think I just kind of just went with her, with the energy of that, yeah.

Advice for your Younger Self

Grace Duong: So what advice would you give to a younger version of yourself? Like the part of you that didn’t know the manifestation techniques that you do now?

Pamela Chen: Yeah, I think so I know when I was younger I was very impatient I needed everything to happen now and  I needed it now! And I do believe that was blocking the flow of things to come into me. So I would just tell myself that it’s coming and you have to live and be from the space of already having it and it will come faster and just like relax, enjoy the moment, the present moment is beautiful! If we can enjoy now but also have the vision of what we desire, then that is also a really powerful formula for manifestation.

How to Handle Manifestations that Happen too Fast

Grace Duong: Right, and sometimes we need to become a different person to handle these new manifestations I had remembered when Mystic Mondays was a Kickstarter, and I remember making a vision board where I was like “It’s going to be an Urban Outfitters!” because that was like my favorite store growing up. And it did happen to be stocked at Urban Outfitters eventually, but that same year when it was still self published, I also had a solo show there and I felt like that was a manifestation come true. And at the same time every thing was moving so fast that year that almost was like overwhelmed by how fast the manifestations were happening. And so I’m wondering, is there a to handle that when the manifestations are almost like too fast, and to shift to be able to sustain that overtime?

Pamela Chen: I think you then have to be aware of that, I think you were kind of aware, and then choose, and then send out the message to be like, Thank you so much for my manifestations. Can I just finish realizing everything that’s coming first and then more things to come? So I think it’s first to be aware, and then choosing now what you desire. Because maybe you wanted all of it to come at once, right? Before you had it “We want it all! We want it now!” And so when it does come then we get to realign, we refine our manifestation. And now we can decide what we desire next. Or something fun I tell all of my clients, especially the spiritual entrepreneurs, right? You just program yourself to think, feel, be. Life is easy, business is easy, it’s fun. So all about easy flow and fun.

Grace Duong: I love that!

Pamela Chen: That’s 3 things that I really say to myself every single day. And how lucky I am, I am so lucky! I win everything! So whatever it is that you have to say, it’s not just saying the affirmation though. You have to really feel it and live it. Yeah!

How to Embody Manifestation

Grace Duong: What are some embodiment practices to really feel those emotions because I know people say it or they’re like you have to feel it! But what does that actually mean? Do you do a meditation to feel these emotions after your scripting or after your vision boarding or something like that?

Pamela Chen: Yeah, you should actually feel it while you’re doing it. So for some people can’t vision so they have to practice So everybody can visualize. Everybody—most—I mean I think there’s like 1%. I’ve worked with one client where it was actually a physical thing where she couldn’t see things in her brain. But most most people can, so if you practice that—imagining so if I just say close your eyes and imagine a pink elephant. So that’s the same as imagining or getting messages from your intuition. That’s the same thing. I think a lot of people think it’s like REAL, right? Like the deck of cards when we imagine. No! It’s just you thinking. Or when you’re receiving a message, it’s just you talking to yourself. So it’s really you and that can get confusing sometimes, but if you just imagine it and you’re there meditations—what I call visualizations—where it’s like a guided visualization that takes you there. And usually I amplify the feeling, I say the feeling, or have you picked the feeling before we go in. And then we amplify it and so you can just really feel it.

What is a Walking Meditation

Pamela Chen: One thing I really like to do is Dr. Joe Dispenza, he has a Walking Meditation. So Dr. Joe sometimes he’s like: “Feeeeel!” I don’t know. It motivates me, but for some people it’s a lot. But I really like feel—I would just say have a vision of what the end looks like. So, say for example I’m going on a vacation. It doesn’t feel like the end to me if I bought my ticket. It doesn’t feel like if I’m on the plane, it feels like I’m there and it’s a done deal when I check in. So it’s different for everyone. So have that “done deal” vision and like: What are you doing? What are you seeing? What are you feeling? What are you eating? And then from there, you can do the Walking Meditation, And you’re literally embodying that and he’s having you like walk your energy. It’s r eally cool, yeah!

Grace Duong: Can you describe what the walking meditation entails and how we can use this practice ourselves?

Pamela Chen: Yeah! You can actually just sit and close your eyes, and really feel into that “done deal” vision so whatever it is for you. I like to feel it in my heart, right? Cause that’s where the magnetism is. So what you usually have one or two, that higher level vibrational feeling. It’s joy, it’s feeling really expansive, it’s happiness, its abundance, its freedom. Freedom is a big one for a lot people so like how do you feel when you’re free, right? You’re probably chest up, shoulders down, and open. How do you feel? If you don’t know then gratitude is always a great one. What are you so grateful for? Maybe it’s your coffee, right? If you can’t find anything. So have that feeling while you’re visualizing it in your brain and then just open your eyes And really still be in that feeling and start walking, as if. So I actually like to go to the grocery store and sometimes I go in my pajamas, but I’m walking around and I’m like: “Yeah! Nobody knows but I’m a millionaire.”

Grace Duong: I love it!

Pamela Chen: I’ll just walk like how I would feel like how I would walk if I was a multi-millionaire, you know?

The Power of Gratitude

Grace Duong: Yeah! I find that gratitude is such a great tool to shift out of victim mindset. Especially if you’re like: “Argh! This thing is going wrong!” or “This thing is not happening the way I wanted to!” and it’s almost like when we shift ourselves into gratitude, We are more open to seeing things in a different way, different perspective.

Pamela Chen: Gratitude is a very powerful—I think it’s a very powerful energy that we get to tap into that fuel. It’s like the fuel. Your spaceship is your manifestation tool or yourself, and gratitude is the fuel.

Taking Responsibility for your Reality

Pamela Chen: So I do want to share—I’m going to out my friend, I’m not going to say her name though. So my main friends—in real life—they don’t really ask me for coaching or anything and they don’t even have Instagram and so one friend though she was like, “Oh! I’m looking for a new job or something something” and she just had babies. And so she’s like: “But my husband, he’s this and he’s that!” I was like: “No, no, no, no! It’s not your husband, it’s you.” Let’s take it back to ourself. He can’t make you feel or be or do anything that you don’t say “yes” to. So she’s like “Okay, okay!” and then a little bit later she’s like again: “Well, he’s—” I’m like: “No, no, no! It’s us.” So you get to decide how you feel. You get to decide how you want to live your life.

Grace Duong: I love that you bring that up because it’s actually an agreement, right? When we have these circumstances that are not fully aligned and the word that you used before in the conversation was realignment. So even though we might have this desired outcome, and I’ve had these experiences where I’m like: “Okay! I’m going to manifest this thing!” and it wasn’t like exactly it. It was like the things but then some of things were off a little bit. And then I’d be like: “Okay! This is not it!” So based on this, I’m going to change my desired outcome because this is not completely what I want. I think that gives us permission to constantly realign ourselves to whatever we want to manifest and that we have permission to change our minds even. You know? Like the one thing you said yes to yesterday, might not be the same thing you say yes to today. Like your friend—in the situation with her husband— she’s in agreement with some of those behaviors that her husband is exhibiting so in some ways, we’re agreeing to the things that we may not be totally in alignment with.

Getting into Alignment

Grace Duong: So  I’m wondering what are some check marks for us to get back into alignment with ourselves when we find ourselves  agreeing to things that aren’t in complete alignment with our true purpose, soul, and everything.

Pamela Chen: Yeah! I think the most important but also probably a hard thing for people who are new to these practices is being aware. Because if you’re not aware, you don’t know, right? She didn’t know or else she wouldn’t have agreed to it. So she didn’t know that she didn’t have to agree to it. Now, she knows. I know she’s going to change cause she listens. But some people don’t know that they’re doing this they don’t know that they they have the opportunity to create their own world and not having other people’s affect them. But I think it’s the awareness and knowing that you are the Magician. That you are powerful. I think that’s very important and that’s a practice, right? Now that you’ve heard us talking about it, the next time something happens, you need take a little step back and be like, Okay, so is that person really making me mad? Am I choosing to be mad? Am I reacting to something that they did? Am I choosing to react in a certain way? So the way that you react the way that you think of what the other person or thing does to you? That’s going create the energy within you remember and then that’s going to manifest. So you can always change it if you catch it. Then you can be like: “Okay! So they did do this. I don’t like that!” So change it. What I like to do again with the alchemizing is flip the script. So if you are “I am sad” well what is opposite of that? Do you really want to claim that you’re sad? Do you want to be be sad? If you want to be said and some people do need to release? Then stay in the energy for a while, it’s okay! But when you’re ready and but don’t stay in it all the time, right? When you’re ready, you can be like: “Okay! How do I want to feel instead?” And then flip it, flip the script, and then say it. If you know you EFT—Emotional Freedom Technique Tapping. I like tapping a lot so you can tap on the meridian point, you can find that online, If that helps you – so I do rituals and spells. Maybe I will light a black candle for clearing and releasing, I’ll write down what I’m releasing and burn it safely please! Burn it or we have a bonfire like my boyfriend dug a hole. And so sometimes I’ll release it in there. I like to do that. If you don’t have fire you can rip it up and just throw it away. So there’s a lot of physical things so the physical things that we are doing is just letting our mind know that, Hey! We’re releasing this from reality. You could always just do it in the mind but it helps a lot, especially if you’re a beginner, if y ou connect to a physical ritual to be focused.

Buy the OK Tarot on Amazon *this is an affiliate link

Alright so obviously, so many gems being dropped  from Pamela on manifestation – but not only that – combining the ethereal with the tangible and how to access your personal power by using actual techniques you can apply to your everyday life. 

If you want to work with Pamela on the quantum level, I wanted you to know she is launching the Activated Business Academy, and if you sign up through my link in the show notes, you’ll receive a $2000 scholarship for her program.

Pamela’s Activated Business Academy helps you align your messaging, recode your subconscious, build a soul-led business, and amplify your magnetism for wealth – so if youre interested inputting that 200 off her prorgam, go to my link in the show notes

Now back to the show for even more wisdom to be dropped.

Taking Aligned Action

Grace Duong: Yeah, I love that you mentioned scripting so much.

Pamela Chen: I do a lot of scripting.

Grace Duong: Yeah, it’s great because in some ways, the people that may not be so aware of their behaviors are also running a script too. They’re just playing a role that they think is in their best interest and alignment with themselves at the time.So everyone is on their own path to becoming more aware of how they’re reacting to certain situations and the only thing that you can really do is to claim your own power in how you react and become the Magician in your own life, you know? where you get to create the ideal scenario for you?

Pamela Chen: I think what you said was very important creating the ideal situation for you and first is they have to know what the ideal situation is. A lot of people don’t manifest because they don’t know what they want. So they’re just like “Abundance!” or even “Million dollars!” But what does that look like in your life? Do you know how that looks like? Do you know how that feels like? Do you what you’re going to do? Do you know where it’s taking you? Do you know where the money is going to go to? Yeah, you can save it or you can spend or whatever however you want to live but a lot of people don’t know what it is. And I that’s very important for them to align to that. Because we’re always aligned to something. The actions that we’re taking is either aligned to who you are now, Which is if you want to change your life, you’re going to change if we keep taking actions aligned to that but if we take aligned actions to who we desire to be to the ideal life then that’s what we’re going to move towards.



Words are Spells

Grace Duong: Yes, and words are spells. So whatever you say you know like so I feel like as a manifestation. and quantum wealth coach saying certain words are really important right so like what would you suggest for people to be mindful of as they’re talking to themselves?

Pamela Chen: So “I can’t” and “I don’t,” right? Those words “I can’t do it!”, “I don’t have it!” or when you—again I work with a lot of money and abundance . So when you are going to buy something and if you don’t have the physical money in the bank, that’s fine. But don’t say “I can’t afford it” because then you’re claiming you can’t afford it or I’m poor. So instead say “I choose not to buy that right now!” It’s perfect! You don’t have to buy it, right? And your bank account right now has nothing to do with your future bank account because I moved out when I was very young and I had negative 300 in my bank. I was always scared to swipe my debit card at the grocery start because I didn’t know if it would bounce. I didn’t know if I had money in there and I was very bad with money. And I learned myself how to be better with money physically and energetically and manifest money. So you can learn all these things if you just decide to change now. Like you can change now!? It’s okay about the past, we can change in the present.

Grace Duong: That’s amazing and super powerful.

How to Change your Relationship to Money

Grace Duong: How did you change your relationship with money and what is your relationship with money right now?

Pamela Chen: So I moved out when I was 16, and so I was going to high school but I was working two jobs. It was like $5 an hour so it wasn’t a lot. So I feel like I didn’t really have a lot of money back then. I was still very happy though. I think I’m just naturally pretty optimistic person. I think cause of my star charts. So I was ready to figure out how to make more money. So the actions that I took was getting jobs that paid more. And the magic that I did was I went and learned from my mentor—it was a psychic. I used to go to a lot of psychics because I was trying to figure out how to get more money. What is my life, the meaning of my life, right? And one psychic actually taught me and my friends how to do money magic, our first spell, and how to meditate, and how to astro travel and all of that. So that was really fun. And for a time, I did make money in Hawaii and I think I just lost the magic. Because I was like: “Oh! I got what I want, right” so I didn’t really do anything to develop that. When I was 20 I moved to Vegas and I just packed up. Me and my roommate packed up our stuff and moved to Vegas so now we needed money. So I think that led me to: “Oh, now I need to study manifestation again!” because I knew I’ve done it before. And so I was very curious to go to a Holistic Fair, and at that time I didn’t know any energetic stuff. and so I saw all these ladies by this crystal bracelet—a booth—and they were like the energies of this bracelet is amazing! I went and I grabbed one and I was like: “There’s nothing…” So I was like: “Whaaat!?” I found my first Reiki coach. I found she was also my Psychic Development coach and from there I got a million certifications but I learned energy, I learned magic, and the manifestation, and I just really applied what I learned to my life and seeing the results but also figuring out what works for me because everybody’s energy is different. So some manifestation techniques might work very well for others and not you, and so you kind of have to play, and you have to try, and you have to discover what is like your own unique blueprint. But it always works. Something will always work for you. and from there I just got better and better jobs and I was hustling. So I was working 4 jobs making good money right in Vegas. I knew there was something bigger, so being in a spirit entrepreneur was a big shift for me and I had to do a lot of money. Work in there like releasing beliefs and upgrading and all of that, I’m still doing it. I’m still on my journey. And so I learned a lot through the doing—through the journey.

Grace Duong: Right, and there’s so much experimentation to what happens with that like it’s never like you’re at the destination fully because when you get to the destination, there’s always something else. There’s always a new destination. There’s always a new journey.

How to Surrender

Grace Duong: and I love that you mentioned surrender earlier in the conversation and I just feel like when there is a destination and when we really feel into it, and tap in our desires there’s also this letting go of how it’s all going to happen. So I was just wondering, what are some ways you surrender and some techniques there that you could offer to us?

Pamela Chen: I literally say: “Detach, detach, detach!” So when I am launching and I still get it, I’m like, Oh my gosh! I want this much clients in my program! And sometimes I get caught up in that to remember, No! Detach, detach, detach, detach! Whoever will come in is the best for the program. We’re going to have an amazing time. They’re going to get incredible results. So now refocusing my energy on like service and not, right? And not: “I want clients!” for self. Which if you desire things for yourself it’s fine too. A lot of time so being of service is very powerful. So then I literally tell myself: “Detach, detach, detach, detach!” And so I really release and then just like, Be open to however the manifestation, however the money is going to come in. So the money doesn’t have to come in from this one job. This money doesn’t have to come in from this one client. So I’ve had clients who took the business program with me, but it’s also a wealth activation program. They’ve taken the business course, and they made their money—not through creating their business at first,but through something crazy, something else, and they were like, What is this? I didn’t even know that was going to happe And so, don’t try to put it in a box on how it’s going to happen. Have your desires and feel into it, but be very open on how you will receive it, and know that you will receive it. Surrendering is great like letting it go, but surrendering is not you just doing a spell, or doing a manifestation technique, meditating for 10 minutes a day, and then be like: “Yeah, the universe is going to take care of it!” There’s still that aligned action that you have to go out and take, right? So there’s still stuff that you have to go out and do. You move first and the universe will follow. And sometimes the actions that you—the opportunities come has something that is going to push you, that is scary. So for me, a lot on my journey, with money, with my business, was investing in my coaches, right? like investing thousands of dollars in them, and it was very scary because I didn’t have the money in the beginning to start investing, right? Like $1000, $2000, $5000 was a lot. But I had to take the first step. The universe—I wanted to build my business, universe is like, Here’s this coach. She could help you build your business. Invest in her. And I had to say “yes” but coming from a space of not “I need” coming from a space of “I’m going to have so much fun, it’s so expansive” and then when I say “yes” I am going to hit my goal, like having that certainty. So you’re going to get these opportunities not all of them is going to be like, Here is Grace’s podcast! Right? Easy! But it’s going to come in many different ways.

Grace Duong: Absolutely, yeah! Just being open to the opportunities and open yourself to magnetize the opportunities, I feel like is very Magician.

Pamela Chen: Yeah!

What Pamela is Working on Next

Grace Duong: So what are you working on these days? What can we look forward to in the future from you?

Pamela Chen: I do would like to share something about publishing though. Grace, is that okay?

Grace Duong: Yeah, of course!

Pamela Chen: I act ually scripted my publishing career because I didn’t go to college and I don’t remember writing an essay in high school because of Hawaii education. We just played! I felt like we just played. So I wasn’t a writer and how I learned to write was actually from writing business copies, like marketing, like my sales page, and my Instagram content. And so I wasn’t a writer and I had to script myself into believing that I’m a good writer. It’s crazy, but it works! I promise! Right now, I actually have 10 publishing contracts. I know. Yeah, you don’t see it because it takes a while.

Grace Duong: Wow! That’s amazing!

Pamela Chen: Tarot of the Owls—I signed in 2018-2019, it was a while ago with Llewellyn. I have an Asian Magic Book coming out with my friend, Sam. And the next one—I have a Money Magic Book with them too. 2025 is Steampunk Fairy Tarot. So the artwork is almost done with that. I finished writing that. That’s going to be really nice. Ashley Cassidy is the artist.  With Hay House, we have Galactic Stars Tarot. So we actually won that, it was a miracle. I didn’t ever think that we would get a Hay House contract. And so it’s very galactic. It’s cosmic magic. It’s with Starseeds, Arcturians, Lyrans, and all the beings. And so that’s not really Llewellyn’s energy or what they publish. So I did submit it to them first and they didn’t understand what it was because they don’t deal with that. So my co-author Alex, she was like: “Let’s take it to Hay House!” but I’m like: “We need an agent! There’s a lot of stuff to get into Hay House.” And she’s like: “No, I’m in the writing program they have where you can submit for a contest.” And so we submitted—I mean we did write a really good proposal. We submitted and we won. We were the first Tarot to ever win, I think. It was crazy! Yeah, that’s really fun. So have that coming out—hopefully 2024,

Grace Duong: That’s so cool!

Pamela Chen: and we also created a membership surrounding that. So that Galactic Star Society—we just closed our launch, it’s launching next year again.

Having Galactic Fun

Grace Duong: So what kind of Starseed are you?

Pamela Chen: I think my soul Starseed origin is Arcturian, and I think that’s where I came from. But actually the other day that we were journeying, it was really funny because— So in one of my journeys, I discovered that I’ve only been on Earth for 4 lifetimes. Maybe 4 or 5, like very less. And what I’m here actually to do is “to bring the fun!” So a lot of my friends—I feel like they’re entrepreneur friends, they’re leaders in their industry, they’re very powerful, and I feel like they’re more serious. So I feel like a part of me—I call myself like the Galactic Bee. I just come in, pollinate fun, I share the fun-ness and the lighter energy with them. because they’re always like: “Wow! With you, it’s so fun!” And they really tap into their playful side, because I’m like: “You’re not serious!” and they’re like: “No! I really am.” So that was part of my mission, so that was like really fun. Like a galactic bee going from planet to planet.

Grace Duong: I love the idea of pollinating fun. We need more fun!

Pamela Chen: Yeah! It’s actually very high frequency, powerful, it’s like curiosity, you discover, you explore, and you just have fun, and you go the flow—the quantum flow—and allow things to happen, right?

Grace Duong: Yeah, and there’s infinite possibilities in the quantum field. So literally anything can happen!

Pamela Chen: Anything can happen.

Grace Duong: There’s like 10 of you creating decks right now.

Pamela Chen: It probably feels that way, yeah!

Grace Duong: So beyond this podcast, you’re already doing like a million things.

Pamela Chen: It’s really fun for me though! I always create when I’m feeling the energy to create so I never really try to force myself. But I always do it pretty fast, like the Owl so when I get—I think the owl really trained me. Like I got the idea, I put it out. So that allowed it to go, instead of like sitting maybe later, you know?

Grace Duong: Yeah! Yeah, I love the Owls because owls are such a huge  symbol for me.

Pamela Chen: Oh, yay!

Grace Duong: Like when I see an owl I’m like: “Oh yeah, that’s a message from my guides.” That means something. It’s usually a significant time for me when owls come in, so…

Pamela Chen: Whoa!

Grace Duong: Hey! Hold up, this came in pretty recently!

Pamela Chen: I know! I know! There’s a whole—We got it early. They’re trying to get it out. There’s this whole thing that happened but I’m glad it came in.

Grace Duong: Same, same. So we like to end the podcast episode with a segment that we like to call The Mystic Mondays segment. So to kick off what is your big 3: your Sun, Moon, and Rising, and do these Zodiac Signs resonate with you?

Pamela Chen: So my western astrology: my Sun is Virgo, my Moon is Leo, and my Rising is Capricorn. Vedic Astrology—which is kind of what I’m resonating with right now and moving into, because it really shows you where our planet or where we are related to the stars, instead of the western which is just like a formula that they calculate. With the Vedic you’re actually in that right now physically So I’m actually triple Leo. So my Mercury is Leo too, So I’m Sun Leo, Moon Leo, Rising Sagittarius. I’m like a Leo Stellium and it was funny because whenever I used to go to psychics remember I went a lot?

Grace Duong: I did too!

Pamela Chen: They would tell me—You did too? Okay! They would tell me that I’m a Leo, and I’d be like: “No! I’m a Virgo.” and then whenever my friends send me astrology stuff they’re like, “You’re so not Virgo.” and I’d be like: “No, I’m a Virgo!” Now it makes sense looking at everything. It’s like: “Oh wow! Okay, this is Leo energy.” Because I do like to be seen. I do want to be known. That’s part of my thing too. So that makes sense that it’s like this really big Leo energy.

Grace Duong: Yeah! I feel like these tools whether it’s Astrology, Tarot, or whatnot. It’s really to get to know one’s self better, right? so like whatever you’re resonating with is what is most alignment with you right now. So for example: I think my mom had actually given me the wrong birth time by like an hour. So my Rising Sign was off in western astrology, So I’m a Gemini Rising but the time she gave me was a Taurus Rising, which is actually my Vedic Rising. But anyway, I read it and I was like: “That doesn’t really sound like me.” and then when I got the right time, I was like: “That sounds more like me.” So it really does matter, you know? Whether the specific time and the systems that you choose to use and whatnot.

Pamela Chen: Yeah, so I do like to share with people though, don’t let that put you in a box though. So let’s just say your iPhone—you get the app. When you get your iPhone you get the main apps, right? Like the messaging, your Safari, but you can add apps to it. So it’s never like: “if you are this Astrology or if this Tarot says this, that’s all you can be.” Like you can change and you can add stuff.

Grace Duong: Oh, for sure. Yeah, it’s all very fluid, and I totally agree that whatever comes through is of the time and like I feel like—especially with Tarot readings, the energy that come into a reading is usually what you get out of it can actually feel completely different then next day depending on whether you’ve done your meditation, or your rituals, or whatnot.

Grace gives Pamela a Tarot Reading

Grace Duong: Okay, would you like to do a Tarot reading?

Pamela Chen: Yeah! Am I reading or are you doing one for me?

Grace Duong: I’m doing it for you.

Pamela Chen: Yes, yes! Okay.

Grace Duong: Do you have any questions or anything you’d like to focus on?

Pamela Chen: How about, what action should I take to have a really good Money Magic Manifest launch?

Grace Duong: Yeah, for sure. That wanted to fly out.

Pamela Chen: Which deck are you using?

Grace Duong: I’m using the Mystic Mondays deck.

Pamela Chen: Mystic Mondays? Oooh, I’m excited!

Grace Duong: So I have the Four of Wands, the Princess of Cups which flew out, and Justice. And with these three cards I feel like—Actually, this is letting you know that just tying up anything that maybe blocking you legally Not blocking necessarily, but just making sure that all of that stuff is taken care of: contracts, legal documents, etc. Princess of Cups—I feel like is more like what we’ve talked about or what you’ve talked about a lot during th is conversation is just really listening to the synchronicities of what’s popping up, whether it’s in your dreams, or you see the same symbols over and over again, And then Four of Wands—I feels like really speaks to your sense of security, and feeling secure no matter what the outcome is, but also I think sense of security brings in that feeling of wealth for you, so tapping more into feeling safe inside your body, I think could really help. So even though, I know your question was very action oriented but it almost feels like this spread is like: “Make sure everything is okay but do less.”

Pamela Chen: Okay, I love that. Yeah. I actually had to rebuild my entire business last year. I split from my business partner so everything—I started from zero again. So I’m manifesting my butt off.

Grace Duong: Yeah! How’s everything going?

Pamela Chen: So in the Vedic—I actually had a Vedic reading done and I felt it I was like in a hole and it was a little bit you know like sticky. It wasn’t as bad as if it would have happened to me 2 years ago because I think I did a lot of mindset energy manifestation work that it allowed me to move through this with more grace. So it wasn’t bad-bad, but if you look at it, it was like bad. It was like: “Oh, it was not that bad!” And now I got out my whole October, and so I think everything is like moving, and building along, and I’m getting more clarity. So it’s fun.

Grace Duong: Yeah, and I feel like those moments that feel like the Tower moments—

Pamela Chen: Yeah, those Tower.

Grace Duong: Yeah, like allowed you to rebuild that structure. And so you’re like coming through in a way—because after the Tower is a Star So now you’re allowed to shine as this Leo presence. And like really be full front and center in your business. Which is awesome!

Pamela Chen: Yeah, I think that allowed me to set more into who I am and express what I wanted to create also because after that it was when all the contracts came into.

Grace Duong: That’s incredible! Cheers to you and all the manifestations that are coming through.

Pamela Chen: I’m really excited, thank you so much!

Pamela’s Favorite Rituals

Grace Duong: Yeah, so one more question: what are some of your favorite rituals?

Pamela Chen: So the Wealth Scripting I actually do every single day and right now I am really working with the body and the voice. So your voice you said is very powerful, it is! Your Throat Chakra is like sending out the spell into the universe. So I do practice a lot of mantras or chanting, and I recently activated my Light Language. So Light Language is a language of light which also have codes and activations in it. So I do it—I actually just go sometimes and activate myself. But I do a lot of chants. So one of my favorite is a Lakshmi chant. So if you want to Google like “Lakshmi chant” because she’s abundance, do that too. So when you chant: you’re speaking, and you’re calling in, and you’re being in the vibration of those magic words. And so that creates like more of that abundance or whatever you’re chanting in your reality. So I think that’s very powerful for me. Those two are the main things that I do almost every day.

Where to Connect with Pamela

Grace Duong: Amazing! Where can people find you?

Pamela Chen: Pamela Unicorn (@pamelaunicorn) on Instagram

Grace Duong: Thank you so much, Pamela, for having this soulful conversation with me, and we will make sure to have all of your links in the show notes. Keep an eye out for Pamela’s new creations and thanks so much!

Pamela Chen: Thank you! Bye everyone!

Grace Duong: Bye.


Leave a Podcast Review 💖

Thanks so much for tuning in to today’s GRACED podcast episode! What were some of your biggest takeaways? I want to hear what you think! Leave a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or a YouTube comment. I read them all! Thank you 💖

Apple PodcastsSpotify


Thanks so much for tuning in to today’s podcast episode with Pamela Chen!

So grateful for Pamela’s magic, light, and bringing the ethereal into practical ways we can apply magic into our lives!

Take this episode as an invitation to connect with the Magician card and see if you can connect to that source of personal power, the part of you that has unlimited potential. What are you manifesting? And how are you going to bring what you desire from your imagination into reality?

And just a reminder, to enter the giveaway to win a Tarot of the Owls deck, you must leave a podcast review, screenshot your review, and email it to If you want additional entries, you can follow us on social media and get the complete rules on Instagram over @mysticmondays and @grace.duong.

Also, each follow, like, and comment on Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, and TikTok platform will be another entry for you to win the Tarot of the Owls deck! Winners will be announced next Wednesday, May 10th – so keep your eyes peeled on your email or socials should you be the lucky winner!

If you liked this episode, please share the GRACED podcast with your friends, like and follow along if you’re watching the videos, and subscribe to the podcast. Since this is a completely new podcast, all the support goes a long way!

Sending you so much GRACE today and everyday. Until next time !